"...I just have it be about two families duking it out? I would lose a plotline I was thinking about -- how to communicate when you don't speak the other's language? -- but I think I can deal with it. Hmmm."
Not necessarily. Normans are French speaking but the indigenous "English" (read: mish mash of Anglo Saxon "English"; Welsh etc) are speaking their languages. Possibly also a smattering of Latin still very much around after the Romans.
The real question is how you would deal with the differences in languages being "spoken" within the narrative - Tolkien worked it very well, but its not easy to pull off.
edit: I've been watching your discussions on this topic - I'd LOVE to be able to read a book in Medieval England which shows the minutiae of life!
I was planning on setting it in the 13th century, during the reign of Edward I. Mostly because my initial plot was set during the Welsh wars, but if I cut out the Welsh angle, then I can really set it Anytime Medieval. But I really need to do research on . . . everything.
I've been watching your discussions on this topic - I'd LOVE to be able to read a book in Medieval England which shows the minutiae of life!I know! It's my prime motivation in writing this. I picked up one of the medieval romances I own today, and read the first chapter, and I had to put it down. The Norman knight in it, outfitted for war and presumably covered from head to foot in chainmail, is like leaping on and off his horse and running around like an Olympic sprinter. At one point, he picks up one of his men, who has fallen headfirst into a moat, by the ankle, and "with a flick of his wrist" flings him one-handed back onto land
( ... )
Ooo - haven't read those books, so will add them to my Christmas wishlist which definitely seems to be VERY book based this year!
edmndclotworthy got SO annoyed with the whole "Da Vinci" thing. Mostly as he is half Italian he got very het up with the title. "Da Vinci" means "From (or) Of Vinci". It wasn't Leonardo's surname at all! And then E read the book as he is a closet cryptographer (in WWII - he would have been one of the boffins cracking codes, or in Queen Elizabeth's time, working for Francis Walsingham!). However, he said a child could have cracked all the so called "puzzles" and "Codes" in the Vinci Code book!
And anyway, the book was trying to copy a much earlier one which was far better a story.
My absolute favorite scene in the Catherine Levendeur books is in the second or third book, when a character's husband watches her strain the spices out of her ale with the sleeve of her dress, and he's thinking, "So gauche! But I love her anyway." It's just a little touch that's human and authentic and that went click! when I read it.
The Da Vinci Code made me angry because a really poorly written book, to the point where I couldn't read it. I never even got to any of the codes, because I only made it to page 30.
Actually, my research in recent days has shown me that bilingualism is a definite possibility, as there was intermarriage back and forth across the Welsh border. So it's completely plausible for one or both of the characters to speak at least some of the other person's language, and probably to have been familiar with it from birth. I just wasn't sure if that was a widespread thing before, or if it never ever happened.
Now I need to figure out if people in England though that all Welsh people were "witches" or slightly afraid of their other-ness, or if it was more "these people, who we are fighting, are pissing me off!" Like in Henry IV, Part 1, Glyndwr (Or Glendower or however you want to spell it) promises Hostpur he'll teach him to consort with the devil and says that the earth shook when he was born. He's a very mystical character. But I don't know if that portrayal is common to the 13th century, because Shakespeare wrote the play nearly two centuries later, and he's not really a source for accurate history.
No, I agree. Much as I like Shake'n'Bake' he's not a history source. I've always actually been a bit surprised that he made a Welsh character a villain, since if memory serves the Tudor dynasty came from Wales. Either he rode a very fine line with the authorities, or the authorities didn't see anything potentially seditious in it.
For me the question of "Do they *really* think this, or are they just pissed off?" can be handled on a case by case basis. You could have some people really buying into the whole "the Welsh are Witch people!" argument, while others don't. Some could even manipulate it to serve their own purposes. The nice thing is depending on how deep you want to go with this you could find some interesting points. For the record, I do this a bit in my stories, and I like where some of my characters go because of it.
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Not necessarily. Normans are French speaking but the indigenous "English" (read: mish mash of Anglo Saxon "English"; Welsh etc) are speaking their languages. Possibly also a smattering of Latin still very much around after the Romans.
The real question is how you would deal with the differences in languages being "spoken" within the narrative - Tolkien worked it very well, but its not easy to pull off.
edit: I've been watching your discussions on this topic - I'd LOVE to be able to read a book in Medieval England which shows the minutiae of life!
Reply
I've been watching your discussions on this topic - I'd LOVE to be able to read a book in Medieval England which shows the minutiae of life!I know! It's my prime motivation in writing this. I picked up one of the medieval romances I own today, and read the first chapter, and I had to put it down. The Norman knight in it, outfitted for war and presumably covered from head to foot in chainmail, is like leaping on and off his horse and running around like an Olympic sprinter. At one point, he picks up one of his men, who has fallen headfirst into a moat, by the ankle, and "with a flick of his wrist" flings him one-handed back onto land ( ... )
Reply
edmndclotworthy got SO annoyed with the whole "Da Vinci" thing. Mostly as he is half Italian he got very het up with the title. "Da Vinci" means "From (or) Of Vinci". It wasn't Leonardo's surname at all! And then E read the book as he is a closet cryptographer (in WWII - he would have been one of the boffins cracking codes, or in Queen Elizabeth's time, working for Francis Walsingham!). However, he said a child could have cracked all the so called "puzzles" and "Codes" in the Vinci Code book!
And anyway, the book was trying to copy a much earlier one which was far better a story.
Reply
My absolute favorite scene in the Catherine Levendeur books is in the second or third book, when a character's husband watches her strain the spices out of her ale with the sleeve of her dress, and he's thinking, "So gauche! But I love her anyway." It's just a little touch that's human and authentic and that went click! when I read it.
The Da Vinci Code made me angry because a really poorly written book, to the point where I couldn't read it. I never even got to any of the codes, because I only made it to page 30.
Reply
Go to Abebooks and do a search on his name and title.
I have done so and the first two in the list are just $25.
First one in the list here.
And its hardback!
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Now I need to figure out if people in England though that all Welsh people were "witches" or slightly afraid of their other-ness, or if it was more "these people, who we are fighting, are pissing me off!" Like in Henry IV, Part 1, Glyndwr (Or Glendower or however you want to spell it) promises Hostpur he'll teach him to consort with the devil and says that the earth shook when he was born. He's a very mystical character. But I don't know if that portrayal is common to the 13th century, because Shakespeare wrote the play nearly two centuries later, and he's not really a source for accurate history.
Reply
For me the question of "Do they *really* think this, or are they just pissed off?" can be handled on a case by case basis. You could have some people really buying into the whole "the Welsh are Witch people!" argument, while others don't. Some could even manipulate it to serve their own purposes. The nice thing is depending on how deep you want to go with this you could find some interesting points. For the record, I do this a bit in my stories, and I like where some of my characters go because of it.
Reply
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