The calea didn't help at all. In fact, it made my migraine worse. Haven't tried the other yet. Might soon because this getting up early and working maintainence thing is kicking my ass and it's hard to keep good spirits about it.
I'm glad you went. Otherwise I would not have gotten to read this post, which is as close as I was going to get to actually going. Also because it appears to have been important to you, and I believe in you. N so forth.
What's funny is I was thinking about Solomon and David (David mostly) last night, and one of the things I realized is that the reason they're so enduring and inspiring is that they're so very human. They screwed up, sometimes REALLY badly (how many of us are going to intentionally send the neighbor's husband to be slaughtered, really?), but they're still among God's most beloved and (David, anyway) remain one of the Big Three's greatest prophets.
My poorly-developed and half-clear point (maybe, I think) is that maybe we need to know the depths of suffering before we can know that God's love is equally deep. Not that that makes suffering suck less. But maybe it's a way to learn both are real. (I warned you the point was unclear. ;) )
I think I see where you're going with that. I know that it was right to leave church when I did because I needed to get away and spend time not intentionally seeking god to realize that I missed god and needed god. I'm not saying people have to go to church to see god, I'm saying I have to go to church to really experience god because the community has always been a part of that. And it's not about doctrine anymore, or what the people next to me believe, it's about reaching out toward something I don't understand and being with a group of people who are doing the same thing draws me into that experience. So the time apart from church, the time actively seeking other beliefs was helpful because I got to see that those beliefs didn't work for me specifically and I had to find something else. But what finally draws me back now and what finally gives me the desire to seek is the idea that there could be a love greater than me, greater than all of us, greater than any bad thing I've ever done. If I could believe that for just one
( ... )
I'm reminded of a bit in The Screwtape Letters where Screwtape is advising his nephew on how to mess with people's prayers, and he says that a devil knows he's really in trouble when a person says to God in prayer, "not what I think Thou art but what Thy knowest Thyself to be." Not that I believe we all have *actual* little devils following us around, but the ideas of God we construct in our heads ("God hates homosexuals," "God likes turtledoves," whatever) are "bedeviling" in the sense that they hold us back from experiencing just how huge God's Love really is
( ... )
It's like Renee Alston says at the end of Stumbling Toward Faith, she is coming to realize that god is bigger than any person, than any definition from any person, bigger than any person's cruelty or kindness.
I remember that conversation! It was about that stupid praise and worship song where they stop it in the middle to have that guy give that long ramble asbout how god is not afraid of who or how you're seeking because he knows eventually if you seek long enough you'll find him. How stupid is that? You can't seek popcorn and find god! Christians think that no matter what you believe eventually if you seek truth you'll HAVE to become a Christian because thwey think Christianity is the only truth. I know all the religions think that in one way or another but it seems worse in Christianity to me. I don't know. Probably because Christianity is the one I've had the most experience with.
I wish you wouldn't say that. I don't care if people's opinions disagree with me, all I've ever asked, ever, is that people can say whatever they want about what they think as long as they don't phrase it like they're telling me what to do. It just kind of hurts when people say they have opinions but they're not going to share them, because if you're going out of your way to say you have something to say but you're not going to say it, I don't understand that. I've never cared if people share their opinions, I get accused of that all the time but I don't want people to not share their opinions with me, I just don't want people to say "you should do THIS" or "You're missing the point" or anything like that. I don't think it's that hard to say "I feel this way" or "I think" and say it that way instead of acting like you're trying to change the other person's mind.
Um...instead of jumping on my back, you might have asked why I was eating my opinions.
At the time, I would have been INCREDIBLY long winded...and I wasn't in the mood to be such. It had nothing to do with not wanting to share my opinion with you.
I wasn't jumping on your back, I said I wish you wouldn't say that you have something to say but you're not going to say it, because that hurts me and makes me scared about what you were going to say in the first place. It does; I have really bad anxiety about it because of things that have happened throughout my life. We've talked about that before. I'm sorry it sounded like I was jumping on you, I don't want to do that to anyone.
That sounded like it would have been very interesting to go to, I would have liked to go to something like that. This was a good post. It made me think, a lot.
I have not given up on God, but I have of organized religion. But I still know there is something out there, I still haven't found it yet. But I am not looking hard either. I get angry a lot, then I don't want to look. It is hard to explain really.
No, it makes sense. I was in that position awhile ago. Ultimately I tried other things to believe and decided to go back to church, but to try to find a church where they wouldn't condemn me to hell so I could take time to figure out what I believe in the process. The path you take might be different, but when you're ready to pursue it, I hope you find one that connects with you and works for you. It's hard to do (or at least it was for me).
Even with everything I have either studied on or tried, I always come back to God. Now I just need to find a group that fits in with my beliefs about what God is and doesn't tell me I have to go with what the Bible says. God is not hate or intolerance, and I see WAY too much of that with most Christian churches out there today, that is why I get so angry. But like I said, I know there is SOMETHING out there. There has to be, because I know I am not the only one who feels this way!!
That was the way it was with me. I got some of the best books on magic and energy work and that kind of thing and did the exercises, and it just never connected with me. I studied and tried Buddhism in college and just didn't feel a connection. I studied other religions in passing but I never felt a spark. With Christianity, I felt a spark, again and again and again, some connection with the parables and with Jesus and with God and even though so many horrible things happened in the church, I still felt a connection with the stories and mythology and with the god, so I know I need to stay within that tradition somehow. I'm working on that. I really like the Episcopalian church so far.
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Do you want me to send you some more you-know-what, but capsules or edibles this time?
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What's funny is I was thinking about Solomon and David (David mostly) last night, and one of the things I realized is that the reason they're so enduring and inspiring is that they're so very human. They screwed up, sometimes REALLY badly (how many of us are going to intentionally send the neighbor's husband to be slaughtered, really?), but they're still among God's most beloved and (David, anyway) remain one of the Big Three's greatest prophets.
My poorly-developed and half-clear point (maybe, I think) is that maybe we need to know the depths of suffering before we can know that God's love is equally deep. Not that that makes suffering suck less. But maybe it's a way to learn both are real. (I warned you the point was unclear. ;) )
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I'm reminded of a bit in The Screwtape Letters where Screwtape is advising his nephew on how to mess with people's prayers, and he says that a devil knows he's really in trouble when a person says to God in prayer, "not what I think Thou art but what Thy knowest Thyself to be." Not that I believe we all have *actual* little devils following us around, but the ideas of God we construct in our heads ("God hates homosexuals," "God likes turtledoves," whatever) are "bedeviling" in the sense that they hold us back from experiencing just how huge God's Love really is ( ... )
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I remember that conversation! It was about that stupid praise and worship song where they stop it in the middle to have that guy give that long ramble asbout how god is not afraid of who or how you're seeking because he knows eventually if you seek long enough you'll find him. How stupid is that? You can't seek popcorn and find god! Christians think that no matter what you believe eventually if you seek truth you'll HAVE to become a Christian because thwey think Christianity is the only truth. I know all the religions think that in one way or another but it seems worse in Christianity to me. I don't know. Probably because Christianity is the one I've had the most experience with.
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Other than that, I'm eating my opinions, lol.
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At the time, I would have been INCREDIBLY long winded...and I wasn't in the mood to be such. It had nothing to do with not wanting to share my opinion with you.
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I have not given up on God, but I have of organized religion. But I still know there is something out there, I still haven't found it yet. But I am not looking hard either. I get angry a lot, then I don't want to look. It is hard to explain really.
Now that I made you scratch your head...
Good luck with church tomorrow. <3
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