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[lovessong]

OK, I have some thoughts about the debate going on about whether women (straight or otherwise) writing m/m slash is good/bad/appropriating minority culture/etc

Comments

[jackycomelately]

This is a brilliant analysis of the situation. I wish I had something equally clever to add, but all I can say is that I absolutely agree.

[lovessong]

Thanks very much! Out of curiosity, how did you come across my post?

[jackycomelately]

I read the Chosen Friend list. I believe you popped up there.

[blacksquirrel]

Thanks for writing down your thoughts.

I have dissertated on this and don't really want to enter the discussion b/c my knee jerk reaction is to say "see my (un)published works," but more than anything, this argument looks to me like a fight between gay (and lesbian) politics and queer politics, identity versus deconstruction. B/c the entire protest seems fundamentally premised on an essentializing/naturalizing notion of what gender and sexuality are (that they are fundamental to personhood and set in absolute opposition to other identity categories), whereas to me slash is inherently about undermining and screwing those structures of categorization. From the very premise "so you think you're watching a show about straight guys? Think again," the fundamental thing at play seems to me to be about questioning how we have gotten used to thinking about sex, sexuality, personality, and representation.

That and the whole "one must only identify with an ideal ego along gendered lines" thing is so 80s. Mulvey wants her argument back.

[lovessong]

Yes! Wow, that helps me understand my own perspective better, because of course I lean toward queerness and deconstruction, that's my whole thing. It also helps explain why there's such a sense of awkwardness about the debate -- two completely different unstated paradigms.

(By the way, I got very excited about your course videos, thinking I'd get to see your students discussing Adam Lambert . . Of course, I realize, thinking about it, that you can't post their class discussion online, but I wish I could have witnessed it!)

[blacksquirrel]

Ha! That would have been fun, but no, no videos of class. They did really well, although none of them had heard of him before. I kind of wanted to show them better performances b/c the AMA wasn't exactly his best vocal. But they were impressed with how he handled himself in the interviews and understood the context of the arguments around the AMAs, and that is exactly what I hoped to get out of it. I'll be doing a unit on him again in Queer Film and TV, so we'll see if it was a fluke, or if Adam really does inspire excellent classroom discussions

[lovessong]

Yeah, that's probably why I wanted to put so much stuff in that post -- I'm not sure it's really comprehensible to anyone who doesn't have some basic understanding of queer theory, and on the other hand it's probably a bit simplistic for anyone who's done substantive work in the area. . . . Although the truth is, I think I write best in that middle space -- writing theory that's not aimed at the academy, but that also isn't quite simplified enough to go in your average footnote-less periodical.

my comment, at long last

[songquake]

well, calling you would have been fun, but i've just been too damn tired tonight. even though i'm still up. it's up though i keep falling asleep.

a tangent before my actual comments: i was talking with my friend naughty_fox last week about bible and sexuality and slash, and she had mentioned anita diamant's The Red Tent, which is TOTALLY a fanfic, though of a public-domain work. as gregory macguire's books are all fanfics of works in the public domain. (as, some might argue, is 1&2 Chronicles.) and it's fascinating to me how these fanworks based on stuff in the public domain can not only gain respect from the dominant culture, but be embraced (Wicked: The Musical) -- and then have fanworks based on them.

it also makes me wonder whether folks like MacGuire and Diamant (and the guy who wrote The Lamb - who was that?) consider their novels to be fanworks. I'd also say that, in some respects there are fanworks of higher quality, and it's a bit of a shame that copyright law does not permit the authors to profit from such works

Re: my comment, at long last (pt 2)

[songquake]

i wonder about how this conversation might have played out ten years ago, when Xena and Buffy were major fandoms (or, more major and contemporary than they are now). i know that i was pulled into fandom by femslash from those two shows, and i know a lot of other women who were as well (many queer, some straight). how is it that we have even fewer sources of strong women now than we did ten years ago??? oh, right. the takeover of reality tv. and, well, we do have the politifandom (i've got a hankering for clinton/palin femslash, actually), but let's see. liz on 30 rock is surrounded by dudes. the women on how i met your mother all seem like sidekicks. and i'm pretty damn sure that there is NO show with casting similar to Living Single.

i'm hoping for some femslash from Grace, but tbh, i can never remember when it's on, so i haven't started writing any myself

Re: my comment, at long last (pt 2)

[lovessong]

Yeah, the structures for telling the story of f/f desire are much less available to us culturally, for sure

Re: my comment, at long last (pt 2)

[songquake]

Even in BTVS fandom, the big lesbian pairing -- Willow/Tara -- was completely uninteresting to me in the fanfiction, although I loved them as a couple on the show.oh, totally. you know me -- all about transgressive sex? canon pairings usually don't do it for me At All

[iliadawry]

Despite nopt being really notably involved in fanfiction at all at the moment, I found this post really interesting and not teal;dear at all.

Also, a much-belated thank you for the poem. It arrived at an excellent time and helped me muchly.

I have more thoughts and I will cogitate before posting them.

[lovessong]

Thanks!

And you're very welcome for the poem -- I'm glad it helped. :)