Comments | lovely_fatima: It's not an agenda. It's life.

lovely_fatima

It's not an agenda. It's life.

Jul 20, 2010 10:18

I tend to avoid race, gender, and sexuality discussions within fan forums and communities, because in our present age, people have forgotten or just don't know how to have a sensible, reasonable discussion about such serious and sensitive topics. That said, there's been a rather interesting discussion going on in the Doctor Who community over what ( Read more... )

Comments 14

neo_prodigy July 20 2010, 16:48:37 UTC

Don't be surprised if I cross-post this.

And by the by:

http://neo-prodigy.livejournal.com/816820.html

sarahandcocoa July 20 2010, 18:43:42 UTC

I've never been one for advocating diversity for the sake of diversity. Real life isn't like that. There's still large sections of the UK that are very 'middle class white'. I come from that background and it's only through travelling, the internet and working in Nottingham (which is multi-cultural) that I've built up acquaintences from other backgrounds. My friends from Durham are all upper-middle class straight whites. It's no coincidence, it's because my college attracts that group of people. The larger (perceived more 'liberal') colleges had greater ethnic diversity, whereas mine which was small, traditional and very Oxbridgey had hardly any.

As for this series, I thought it dealt with POC and LGBTA characters well. The episodes (of any British TV series) that might as well have big "Oooh, look, here's our Token Asian/African/Gay of the episode" signs are surely more insulting.

Liz Ten: She was a cool character. And at the end of the day, she triumphed over those controlling her and continued to rein. I believe this put across ( ... )

look again. sarahandcocoa July 20 2010, 19:09:20 UTC

Geez, look at the RTD seasons again and then read this ( ... )

Re: look again. lovely_fatima July 20 2010, 20:09:31 UTC

Oh, I'm not giving RTD a "pass" by any stretch, particularly given the horrible things he had the Doctor do and say to Mickey and Martha. In Martha's case, in particular, I have a HUUUUUGE bone to pick over how such a wonderful, intelligent and worthy character was essentially eviscerated and made to be second best to a woman who wasn't even CLOSE to being her equal.

However, at least under his reign the POCs were THERE. It wasn't perfect by a long-shot, but at least we were represented.

And, btw, there's no need to hide under the cloak of anonymity. If you can't put your name on your thoughts and feelings and own them, then how can I take you seriously?

lovely_fatima July 20 2010, 20:18:25 UTC

I hear what you're saying. Believe me, I hear all the time from my friend Wendy who lives in a little village near Dover, "this place is *very* white!" And yet, I'd counter that argument by saying that perhaps the "mainstream" audiences in the little towns and hamlets throughout the UK could benefit by seeing genuine diversity on a popular TV show, especially if they don't see it where they live. Just because your village isn't like that in real life doesn't mean there couldn't be the *possbility* in fiction. After all, that's what speculative fiction is. That's what it's *for*!

I also disagree that having two gay characters in "The Lodger" would have had to deal with coming-out issues. Not every gay love story is an awkward coming-out story, nor does it have to be. That the characters could be gay is a matter-of-fact thing. So they kiss on the couch at the end? So what? Gay people kiss, just like straight people do. Pass the chips and the remote...

eumelia July 20 2010, 19:40:31 UTC

Via... some place else that linked you.

Thank you for writing this! I've seen other similar critiques and agree that Moffat is really doing a disservice to the previous four seasons. Despite being a better arc-builder than RTD, I'm not keen on the world building that had gone on in this season.

Also, ending it with a wedding! A Wedding! Classical Classist Heteronormative Happy End. I really couldn't believe it.

lovely_fatima July 20 2010, 20:32:12 UTC

Well, I can forgive the wedding at the end, since it was the crux of the drama at the very beginning. Story-wise, it just made sense, particularly with the way Amy and Rory's relationship was developed.

To be honest, I don't think Moffat is even aware that the "whitewash" is happening. Based on interviews I've read, his focus is entirely on STORY and less on world-building or environment. Now, I'll say that I LOVE the shift in focus towards a slower, more subtly building story arc, but it *is* worrisome that this is happening at the expense of a rich and diverse universe. Again, my hope is that this will change or develop in the next season, now that the fairy-tale-wedding-jitters story is done and we're moving on to something else.

My .02 krissed_off July 21 2010, 07:45:35 UTC

Bottom line - if you can't watch a show like this without it having political overtones or sexual crushes on fictional characters then I suggest that these are the actual things you enjoy and not Doctor Who. The operational term is "IF YOU CAN'T" folks ( ... )

Re: My .02 lovely_fatima July 21 2010, 11:22:39 UTC

As you said, the critical phrase there is, "If you can't...." Thankfully, I can and do. However, when I *DO* choose to scrutinize the show from the perspective of race, gender, and sexual orientation, there are major issues that crop up. Is it a perfect world? No. I understand that. But there is no harm in pointing out things that should be discussed in our cultures and societies. Half the problems we have with race, religion, sexuality and gender equality stem from the fact that people just don't want to or can't sit down and have a discussion about the myriad ways, overt and subtle, in which people who are not part of the dominant group are marginalized ( ... )

Addendum anonymous July 21 2010, 09:11:40 UTC

As a geeky follow up - I just want to say that we don't know where Stormcage Containment Facility is. We see River and Liz 10 in the Royal Collection the scene after, though we don't see any travel between there and the Cantina where River gets the Vortex Manipulator, so we could postulate that Stormcage and the Royal Collection were not on the same planet. The Royal Collection COULD be on a New Earth, or colony planet. Also, the 51rst century would be from the year 5001 to 5100. 5145 would be in the 52nd century. Although River is a time-traveller, she does seem to be human, as does Jack. Earth totally is aware it is in the midst of vast alien empires by then, but it would seem that the Time Agents - the major travellers of the period, Earth's first true time/space manipulators - were mostly from Earth. Magnus Greel fostered a cul-de-sac in time travel with his Zigma experiment during World War 5 which ended in the year 5000. He escaped at that point back into Earth's past (1860-90) and accused the Doctor and Leela of being Time- ( ... )