Comments | lonewytch: meta: Run, You Clever Boy....

lonewytch

meta: Run, You Clever Boy.... - The Bells of Saint John

Apr 02, 2013 23:05

First of all, hurrah that the show is back and what a great ep! Secondly - well, nothing secondly, except here is meta! Featuring nursery rhymes and Celtic myth, the Question and the Quest, the mirrors and the web, forests and leaves. Oh, and Chairs.

( ...and remember )

myth and metaphor, damn you moffat, meta, doctor who

Comments 40

boji April 2 2013, 23:31:41 UTC

Will be coming back to read as soon as I finish editing my meta down from 2,000 words - which is a fairly ridiculous length if I say so myself.

Delighted to see you!

lonewytch April 3 2013, 18:50:22 UTC

Lovely to see you too, and looking forward to reading your meta!!!

a_phoenixdragon April 3 2013, 00:48:30 UTC

The fact the Spoonheads take on a reflection of your subconscious was also very Snowmen. Like the Spoonhead 'remembers' FOR you.

I found the Doctor's horror of The Mind Cloud very evocative. Like he remembers where he left River and by saving Clara (and a handful of others), he is saving River and (essentially) himself. He hates that he will kills the others who are dead (and have been a while), but he'd rather that than 'a fate worse than death'. So now we have his true feelings on CAL and her computer-world of books and memories. How that must haunt him!!

Can I just tell you how much I love you and your meta? You are always so THERE and THINKY and OMG, you are SO DAMNED BRILLIANT!!!

*HUGS*

elisi April 3 2013, 08:22:49 UTC

Can I just note my hearty disagreement with the view of the Library? Yes this (the uploaded people) was the same idea, but in a mirror, darkly. The Library is as close as you can get to haven in an atheist world...

"My grandfather's youngest daughter. She was dying, so he built her a library, and put her living mind inside, with a moon to watch over her, and all of human history to pass the time, any era to live in, any book to read. She loved books more than anything. He gave her them all. He asked only that she be left in peace. A secret, not a freak show."

Indeed, it is also as close to a traditional Time Lord afterlife as is possible, with Gallifrey gone.

/staunch defender of River's ending :)

ETA: Plus, in the Library, the people were cared for, looked after, happy. Here, they were terrified & treated as cattle. (I feel rather strongly about this. Hope you don't mind.)

a_phoenixdragon April 3 2013, 16:08:14 UTC

Hmmm...I will agree to disagree (as I did not like River's ending). I feel that it was a lovely place for a little girl who was dying and though the people who were there would rather be there than not alive, I still feel it is a prison of a sort in its own way. But those are my personal feelings.

The Cloud did NOT have an extended world like that, you do have a point - but the basic principals were the same. Your consciousness was uploaded into a system and there is no way out of that system. River may have a long life, with a lot to do and could be relatively happy in there - but the Doctor told her there was no way he could get her out. And he made it clear he wished he could. Those people were 'saved', but if the Doctor could have found a way to get them out of CAL's system, he would have done so ( ... )

lonewytch April 3 2013, 18:52:09 UTC

Yep, Spoonheads = Snowmen for sure, they operate essentially in the same way in terms of mirroring.

Awww, darling, thank you so much. I am so glad you enjoy my meta, and i love it that you always leave such lovely comments.

janie_aire April 3 2013, 04:52:47 UTC

Great minds think alike!

lonewytch April 3 2013, 18:52:37 UTC

*hugs* good to see you. I've abandoned Gally somewhat haven't I?

janie_aire April 3 2013, 20:04:28 UTC

Well I can see why. But I'm just happy you're still around doing Who meta ( ... )

lonewytch April 6 2013, 08:36:44 UTC

Yeah, I lurk on LJ mostly now, I love fandom over here. Gally kind of rains on my parade sometimes.

Well, I had to use the Chair Agenda - glad it made you warm and fuzzy!

Oooh, of course, she ends up on an aeroplane, i wonder if we'll se any other wings or flight symbolism. I love finding the new symbols - seems like leaves are going to be important this time around too. That leaf is the thread that binds him back to the moment her met her as a child, the moment when really her life started to change - makes me wonder if with timey wimey stuff him meeting her as a child somehow drew someone's attention to her and they took blueprints of her to lead him into a trap.

Angels - winged beings too - and the "cloud" common usage for stuff stored in the wi-fi but again linking into flight and the sky. I'm really excited to see what Moff has in store tonight.

elisi April 3 2013, 08:51:45 UTC

I like the chairs, but I'm not sure you've convinced me. Mostly because they're a pretty essential thing to have around. (River's throne in the Library is obviously important, but on the whole I'm not sure they're putting thought into it. Mind you, I dearly hope they are!)

Anyways, the leaves/trees etc are definitely imbued with all kinds of meanings. And the mirrors. <3 <3 <3

Will get back to you later, as I'm on my way out the door. But love all this.

ETA: This is why I shouldn't write in a hurry. Didn't catch the lack of 23, like, at all. The mystery deepens! (Love the Clara-is-the-show allegory btw. Am working on something to do with that.)

Also the necklace! Thank you. Couldn't tell what it was, but this makes all kinds of sense. And the next episode should be full of Egyptian stuff. *crosses fingers*

lonewytch April 3 2013, 18:59:31 UTC

Yeah, the chairs is a difficult one, because they are such common items. I'd like to track back thruogh Moffat era Who and get all the references as the case becomes more convincing when you do - Janie can make a better accounting of it than I can as she's been following that idea for a while. The symbol of the Throne (Vampires, Widow) is obvs important and intentional though. The thing with me, is I have a tendency to read Who without considering authorial intent and I work on the basis of my own reaction to it and interpretation of it - so i think i do read things that weren't intended and can seem off-base ;) (it's not an approach everyone loves or even likes very much, but I think because I come from a background of interpreting myth spiritually according to my own relationship with it, it sort of bleeds into how I read Who ( ... )

elisi April 3 2013, 19:05:20 UTC

Re. chairs, then I have now read janie's meta, and I think I might be on board more or less...

The thing with me, is I have a tendency to read Who without considering authorial intent and I work on the basis of my own reaction to it and interpretation of it - so i think i do read things that weren't intended and can seem off-base ;)
Oh I totally get that, but OTOH I've read The Writers Tale and know how much is up to chance & rewrites & What Happened On The Day Of Filming, so I sort of go both ways. But still - ignore the author, absolutely. Often they put stuff in without even realising it.

She is holding the leaf in the poster for the next story. *crosses fingers and toes*

Where did her year go? I mean, where can a year go?

lonewytch April 3 2013, 19:38:52 UTC

I totally agree that they put stuff in without realising. I reckon that when working on such an intense show as Who, the creative vision that includes both the writing and the props and set dressing teams means they can can sort of be unconsciously tapping into themes and imagery without it being a deliberate thing. After all, they are working with deep archetypes that have symbols which are shared amongst humans generally.

I know..the leaf in the poster. Cannot wait for the next ep.

Exactly - where the heck can a year go...and without her noticing too, presumably. Almost like it was wiped. Unless some Big Bad took her away and made blueprints of her which they cast back and forwards in time in order to lure the Doctor in - meaning that she could be a trap. I still love the Gallifreyan Time Egg theory though.

Loving it all, though i do very much miss River.

boji April 6 2013, 16:35:12 UTC

So, firstly I'm amused we both posted links in the Who-comm today *grin* mind you I only wrestled my meta into coherence last night ;-)

I'm missed the nursery rhyme! How could I miss that?! Lovely.

That is to say the Doctor is no longer playing our Messianic Saviour of the World role, from what I can tell. Instead she is this greater mystery, and he her prophet.I pasted this in here and started to think of the trope woman as divinity. If we posit that the TARDIS is the mother goddess and follow that line of thought, can it not be said that Amy is Demeter with River as Persephone? i.e. the mother losing her daughter to the lord of the underworld (subconscious) for months at a time - and grieving too? (Pond's Life?) Clara I read more as Hecate with the maiden being Clara we meet in 'Bells' the woman being Clara in the Christmas special and the Crone being the Dalek-Clara ( ... )

lonewytch April 8 2013, 11:35:01 UTC

yay! I'll be reading your meta when I get home. For some reason the Library has blocked your LJ page under the category of "sex" which I thought was quite amusing (possibly because you put the adult content notive on it, i dunno ( ... )

boji April 8 2013, 13:56:37 UTC

Yay! I'll be reading your meta when I get home. For some reason the Library has blocked your LJ page

Ooh er.... I have vague recollections that I set it to a '15' certificate, if you will, donkeys years ago.

Is the Dreamwidth also blocked?

BELLS:
http://boji.dreamwidth.org/375272.html

RINGS:
http://boji.dreamwidth.org/377231.html

Will hunt down more of your previous meta over the coming week - have another post to do on Summer Falls first ;-)