Question about 2nd Person Pronoun in Don't Cry for Me Argentina in Spanish & Portuguese

[floodsofmemory]

So, I was listening to the versions of Don't Cry for Me, Argentina in Spanish & Portuguese and noticed that the second person personal pronoun varies throughout the song and, was hoping you could elucidate the reason why.

In Spanish it starts off with vosotros (debéis creerme, la fe que queráis conseguir, mi lugar vuestro es por vosotros luché) and

Comments

[paulistano]

This is conjecture on my part, but when she's speaking (singing) in the plural, she's speaking to Argentina's citizens, but when she's using "tu," she's speaking to Argentina as a country, personified.

[caiasm]

It would be my guess too... or... the feeling I've always got, anyway.

[patu_paiarehe]

Makes sense to me too. Interesting that she´s not using the vos form, since they don´t actually use tu in Argentina.

[embryomystic]

I was just thinking that!

[ext_1289137]

Actually, it's the voseo. Vos is an informal second person pronoun that more or less replaces tú in much Latin American regional speech, very markedly in Argentina.

tú quieres (standard), vos querés (using vos) = you want (both mean the same)
no llores [tú] (standard), no llorés [vos] (using vos) = don't [you] cry (both mean the same)

etc.

For the formal you, you still have usted, which takes third person verbs.

http://www.spanishdict.com/answers/198500/what-is-vos-voseo-y-vosotros

[floodsofmemory]

I expected to find vos and ustedes in the song, as last the ones sung by Argentine singers, however it uses tú and vosotros (as seen above) and, even tú and ustedes in the version cited by di_glossia that I wasn't aware of. Is the use of tú in all version of the song instead of vos just sloppy translation?

[ext_1289137]

Actually, it's the voseo. Vos is an informal second person pronoun that more or less replaces tú in much Latin American regional speech, very markedly in Argentina.

tú quieres (standard), vos querés (using vos) = you want (both mean the same)
no llores [tú] (standard), no llorés [vos] (using vos) = don't [you] cry (both mean the same)

etc.

For the formal you, you still have usted, which takes third person verbs.

I had a link to an explanation in my original comment but that got it marked as spam. But, if you Google vos or voseo, you will find it!

[ext_1289137]

And it's true, she uses vosotros to speak to the citizens (vos she uses to speak to the country, singular), and you'd normally say ustedes in Argentina, but vosotros is informal and intimate, which is the tone she always struck, and it's how God addresses groups in the Bible, etc. I haven't read a lot of her speeches but she may use vosotros to speak to groups there, too.

[di_glossia]

The adaptation the OP cites was a 1980 Spanish adaptation, which explains the vosotros as a switch between talking to a crowd to talking to the country as one person.

[ext_1289137]

And - in the translation, I gather they're using tu for vos because tu is more informal than voce (to address Argentina, the country). Otherwise they are using voces (to talk to a group of people, informal plural in Brazil ... vós exists too (parallel to vosotros in Spain) but is very Portuguese (as in, from Portugal).

[jafacakes]

In the Portuguese version tu and voces are used in the right context , vos would never be used because although it exists it is only used in very formal language, like adressing a president or the pope. It is never used coloquially in Portugal

[floodsofmemory]

According to Wikipedia, vós is still employed colloquially in its original usage, that is as the informal second person plural, in the dialects of Northern Portugal. Have you not seen this to be true?

[cafecomics]

Well, my family is from the Coimbra/Aveiro region and they mostly use "vocês". When my parents were angry at us kids misbehaving they often switched to "vós" though ("Que estais fazendo?")