Old Norse gender-neutral pronoun?

Jan 19, 2012 03:00

Did Old Norse or its parent Old North Germanic language have a gender-neutral pronoun equivalent to English's now-extinct ou? The older a form the better, in this case.

pronouns, germanic

Leave a comment

Comments 18

sollersuk January 19 2012, 08:42:23 UTC
"Ou" isn't quite extinct; I've heard it a few times since moving to North West England. Despite the Danish influence, the North of England can be very conservative linguistically; the Northern Old English form of "usa" for the first person plural pronoun still survives as the very widely used "us".

(A few months ago, my daughter, who is definitely Southern and more "posh" in her speech than I am, said, "And I thought the whole idea was nobody would come up us path... I cannot believe I just said that!")

Reply

madbandril January 19 2012, 13:09:52 UTC
I can't find any reliable information about "ou". It's not in the OED or the MED. How do we know it was real?

Reply


fayanora January 19 2012, 09:13:22 UTC
How is "ou" pronounced? I want to revive that pronoun.

Reply

sollersuk January 19 2012, 10:30:04 UTC
Round here (see above) it's like "Ooh".

Reply

fayanora January 19 2012, 10:55:01 UTC
Makes sense.

Reply

sollersuk January 19 2012, 11:36:24 UTC
Also the genitive, as in "Ou/oo (never seen it written down) left oo's (pronounced as in "ooze") bag on' table".

(I don't really know a satisfactory way of writing this usage. I've seen "on t'table" but this doesn't express the sound at all - it's a very brief stop)

Reply


muckefuck January 19 2012, 15:34:38 UTC
Sorry, could you tell me more about the pronoun ou? I know it only as a dialectal form of you, not as an epicene third-person pronouns (which is what I surmise you must be asking about, since all first- and second-person pronouns in English are "gender-neutral").

Reply

madbandril January 19 2012, 19:23:39 UTC
I would also like to know more about it. This is all I can find.

Reply

madbandril January 19 2012, 19:31:22 UTC
and if it's in the OED, I can't find it.

Reply

muckefuck January 19 2012, 19:35:33 UTC
I can't find any mention of epicene a in the OED, although this form is listed under both the entry for he and for heo (a feminine pronoun generally replaced by she in the 11th century). Heo also yields oo in some of the dialects where it survives and it's possible it could've subsumed he there.

On the basis of this, one wouldn't expect to find an epicene pronoun in Old Norse since ou would seem to represent a Middle English innovation (not even present in Old English, let alone earlier forms of Germanic). Of course, it wouldn't be unthinkable that there exists a North Germanic variety where reduced forms of hann and hón have fallen together in the same manner.

Reply


Leave a comment

Up