Remnants of Ottoman Turkish

Nov 16, 2011 23:08

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turkish, bulgarian, albanian, farsi, arabic

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Comments 9

muckefuck November 16 2011, 15:23:24 UTC
If you want to know more about what Atatürk's reforms did (and didn't) do to the language, there's no better source in English than Geoffrey Lewis' The Turkish language reform : a catastrophic success. I highly recommend it.

Sadly, I don't know a good comprehensive source for Turkish loans to Balkan languages. Instead, I rely on dedicated etymological dictionaries of each one, which is tedious. For instance, if you search these words in Wiktionary, you'll find that the etymon is actually Persian (although clearly Ottoman Turkish was the vehicle by which this reached southeastern Europe). Oh, and to add to your list, there's Romanian geantă.

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panjomin November 16 2011, 18:06:33 UTC
In Arabic it's spelled and pronounced شنطة.

There are many words of Arabic and Persian origin still alive and kicking in Turkish.

Dukhan comes from Arabic, where it means "smoke" and (in some dialects) "tobacco," but not "smoking." So the semantic change must be Ottoman, Turkish, or Albanian (or something in between).

As our ostad (there's another one) muckefuck says, you do have to check on a case-by-case basis.

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pthalogreen November 16 2011, 19:33:13 UTC
tobacco is dohány in Hungarian and duhan in Serbian. I'm not sure if we picked the word up while we were occupied by the Turks or if we got it from our slavic neighbours to the south (who did get it from the Turks)

orange is portokal in Macedonian as well.

not being able to speak turkish or arabic myself, i'd need more examples to produce more words. (there's no word like csanta in Hungarian for bag, alas. we have zsák, zacskó, and szatyor)

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pthalogreen November 16 2011, 19:40:20 UTC
wikipedia had a few hungarian words we have from turkish:

old turkish:
kicsi - small (cs is like ch in english)
alma - apple
sárga - yellow (s is like sh in english)
iker - twin
betű - letter
bika - ram
borjú - calf
disznó - pig (sz is like s in english)
búza - wheat
árpa - barley

modern turkish:
kalauz - pirate
zseb - pocket (zs is like slavic ž)
papucs - slipper
kávé - coffee
pite - pie

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solri November 16 2011, 20:27:13 UTC
Búza is interesting. In modern Turkish, wheat is buğday, but there is a (very nice) Turkish drink called boza made from fermented wheat.

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pthalogreen November 16 2011, 20:38:08 UTC
neat.

Wiktionary also has quite a few: You can click on them for English definitions.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Hungarian_terms_derived_from_Turkic_languages

and this page has some more, but it's all in Hungarian http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%B6r%C3%B6k_j%C3%B6vev%C3%A9nyszavak_a_magyar_nyelvben

The italic words are the loan words. I don't know the English translation for about half of those, though

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tortipede November 16 2011, 21:52:55 UTC
The word for 'orange' is the same in Greek (and a number of other languages): it appears to go back to the sweet orange having been introduced to Europe by the Portuguese.

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verrucaria November 16 2011, 22:54:32 UTC
Damn those Iberians getting to Asia. ;)

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