Tbilisi - "the Warm Place"

[varpho]

hello,
i read once that the name of Georgian capital city Tbilisi [თბილისი] means "warm place" in Georgian.
i checked it with this German<->Georgian dictionary and indeed 'warm' is "tbili" [თბილი

Comments

[muraven]

My guess (which is not an educated one in any sense) is that perhaps Georgian obtained the word through contact with Slavic languages in much the same way that English has absorbed words from all kinds of languages regardless of their connection to it.

[oryx_and_crake]

Hardly possible.
Tbilisi was founded around 450 A.D. Slavic languages were not around at this time yet.

Besides, I don't see much resemblance between "Tbilisi" and "теплый".

[varpho]

the only difference between "b" and "p" is that "b" is voiced and "p" voiceless. and other consonants are the same in both words: tbili and tyoplii...
it just made me thinking, i am only guessing. :)

[six_crazy_guys]

"It was spoken before the 7th century." -Wikipedia on Proto-Slavic

There's nothing to say Old Slavic borrowed the word, though.

Eitehr that or it's just a false cognates (There are much more obvious ones, after all). The human brain is built to recognize patterns, which is the reason we tend to seesimilarities between otherwise unrelated words.

[ex_co_lum_bu730]

It was spoken well before the 7th century, in all likeness, but there is absolutely no reason to assume any relation between the two words. The alleged similarity is realy ephermeral.

[venkovan]

Warning: highly dangeous made-up-on-the-spot linguistics below.

Hmm. It's a little like 'teply' (that y should have an accent but I'm at college) in Czech, which also means warm. This is obviously related to the Russian one...but maybe there is a link to the Georgian one too. I've always presumed 'teply' was related to English 'tepid'. If all three are indeed related, whch seems a little implausible, it would be very interesting to know the etymology.

Is ther a similar word in other Germanic/Causcasian languages? Is there one in Romance lanaguges? My brain is trying to tell me that there's one in French...but it might just be hoping too hard.

However, the whole lot could just be coincidence. Perhaps we're just trying to see links? Althought this is always helpful for learning vocab!

[varpho]

yes, basics of Slavic vocabulary is almost the same in [all?] Slavic languages, i am native speaker of Polish and when i see written text in other Slavic language usually it is possible to understand the basic meaning of it. of course, there are many "faux amis", so guessing the meaning is sometimes dangerous. ;)

i think you were right assuming that it is related to English "tepid":
Etymonline.com says on "tepid":
c.1400, from L. tepidus "lukewarm," from tepere "be warm," from PIE base *tep- "warm" (cf. Skt. tapati "makes warm, heats, burns," tapah "heat;" Avestan tafnush "fever;" Old Church Slavonic topiti "to warm," teplu "warm;" O.Ir. tene "fire;" Welsh tes "heat").

maybe "tbili" is a loanword from some other Indoeuropean language, not necessarily Slavic... if it is a loanword.

yes, seeing links is very helpful for learning vocabulary - it is my main method! :D

[bugtilaheh]

Spanish: tibio -> tepid
French: tiède -> tepid

[bugtilaheh]

Portuguese: tíbio
Italian: tiepido

[tacente]

+1, more or less.

[tacente]

That +1 was a percent, right?

No it wasn't; it was a sign of (cautious) agreement (meaning "I second your opinion"). I'm sorry, this type of newspeak is so widespread in the Russian segment of the Internet that I mistakenly thought it was universal.

Re the essence: there are, indeed, lots of chance resemblances between languages. Besides, guessing at the meaning of a city name more than a thousand years old is always risky. Nobody knows what "Moscow" means. If it's not a Roman city (except Rome, which is an enigma again), the name of any old place is indecipherable.

[qalanjo]

Tbili is not a loanword, it's a very Georgian word. I think is just coincidence that they kinda sound alike.

[qalanjo]

Most loanwords in Georgian are Persian, the handful of loanwords from Russian came in the last century or so, names for things introduced to the country and not originally georgian:
for example-

maghazia - store (russian - magazin)
avt'obusi - bus (russian - avtobus)
sk'ola - school (russian - shkola)
zhurnali - newspaper (russian - zhurnal)

[varpho]

thank you.

yes, these ones are obviously loanwords, i was thinking about possible older borrowings...

but of course assuming it is a coincidence is the best solution. :)

[qalanjo]

Well, it is from the Georgian word თბობა (tboba) meaning "to warm/heat." If you are not familiar with Georgian, note these other native Georgian words so you can see how well თბილი fits in:

ტკბილი t'kbili - sweet
ტკივილი t'kivili - pain
ტყუილი t'quili - lie
კბილი k'bili - tooth
თხილი tkhili - nut tree

; )