OOC: Summary of HRW knot on crafter-riders, 3/1/10

[leovaried]

The HRW knot had a big discussion tonight, and this is what we (those of us present) came up with. XD It was double-checked on the knot and then posted here for length.

*cheers Ajatha, Gabrion, K'del, P'ax, Taikrin, Teris, Tiriana, Vyshani, and W'chek!*

Comments

[thumpykai]

I wasn't there, but I have thoughts to share!

Meanwhile, posted crafters might worry that the Weyr leadership might want to replace their crafters with riders (rider-harpers for signing Weyr-specific deals?).

In one of the first two Dragon- books (I can never keep them straight), there's mention of the Weyrsinger, who is essentially a Harper-Rider (or a Rider-Harper). I think he's the old bluerider who dies in the first Fall, but without going to look, I'm not positive. P't-somebody

[breedingtrue]

Just to support Kai, the weyrsinger was at Benden Weyr. C'gan and blue Tagath, both deceased in first threadfall, Ninth Pass.

[leovaried]

Thanks, Ajatha. Names R fun!

[gabrion]

Here's an interesting question: can rider-crafters be posted to a hall or hold? Would the weyr allow it? Would facilities be adequate?

In the books, every hold and hall gets a watchrider in the 9th pass. Ruatha accomodates both Ruth and the watchdragon, but Jaxom has enough rank to get the hold remodeled for him, and I suspect that's what happened in that case.

If we assume watchrider accomodations resemble weyrs, we can safely assume room for one or two dragons (some weyrs can fit two; so might some watchrider quarters, but you'd have to share with whatever random rider was also posted to that place - AWKward!). MAYBE three if it's a big hold, or a rich one that really wants that rider-crafter and is willing to build or remodel a space for them.

[isziyo]

So, I think the one thing that sticks out in my head when I read this stuff is: nothing ever is so clear! There are a lot of questions arising from the "need" of having rules, but... in reality, things are never so clean-cut. Things get muddled. Some things work for some people that don't work for other people. Organic RP and character development will work out a lot of these issues, I think, better than any pre-conceived "track" system could, because... ICly, none of this stuff has /happened/ before. It's going to be new for everyone. Nobody is going to have all of this together, a whole new set of rules, just because one or two or even a handful of riders decide to invest themselves into crafting. And, of course, even if there /are/ rules... In reality, it's often not /what/ you know, or what rules you adhere to, but /who/ you know, and how /they/ can make the rules bend /for/ you

[mecaith]

Should riders go past journeymen? I don't think so, simply because Mastering a craft takes personal sacrifice, and I think the ghosts of golds past would come back and haunt a dragonrider who tried to sacrifice his living, breathing Boeing-sized lump of flesh for a stupid knot. ;)Caveat: Depends on the craft. Some crafts are easier to balance with a dragon's needs, also most adult dragons don't require nearly as much tending to as young dragons

[blueaid]

Should riders go past journeymen? I don't think so, simply because Mastering a craft takes personal sacrifice, and I think the ghosts of golds past would come back and haunt a dragonrider who tried to sacrifice his living, breathing Boeing-sized lump of flesh for a stupid knot. ;)

Agreed. Bolded part added for "exactly what I would have said" emphasis!

[kasadel]

As I see it, what we're trying to do at the moment is work out what's possible. What kind of ideas we're looking at, an idea of where we see things going. The exact details? Yes, they're all going to get worked out in RP, as needed, because it will be different between different crafts, and it's also likely that different areas will ICly decide different things. K'del and Tiriana might say 'we're not paying for people to be students, geez!', while other weyrs might embrace that wholeheartedly.

Which means... I guess I see us working out the basics of what might happen, and then taking things on a case-by-case basis after that, probably confirmed by the weyr council (possibly the game council? I don't know, it could be either). So, player y comes up and says that they want to do x, and then we work out what the craft in question would think, based on previous RP and and so on, and give them a yay or nay. And then that information goes into news files as necessary, to keep us on track for future RP.

If all that makes sense.

[gabrion]

Makes sense to me. This way, we're all working from a common set of assumptions about what might be considered ICly reasonable, which we can then violate at will if we decide to be UNreasonable. :)

[blueaid]

Leova - Process: This should be done slowly/gradually, pushed by PCs who're interested in it, possibly a two-steps-forward-one-step-back sort of thing.

This has already been happening. P'draig pursued his Journeyman knot, and M'try has been going back to the Hall the past couple of months to finish his training as well. So I think we can establish that this is player-driven and already occurring.

Leova - The simplest version of a crafter-rider might be a paying student who happens to be a dragonrider. I don't think this is a universal solution. Some crafts, like Baker (to pick on P'draig again), don't have a centralized crafthall, and don't accept paying students. Similarly, I can't see the Miners taking paying students-- or Starsmiths, Smiths, Sailors... pretty much any craft but Harper (as established) and maybe Healer. And I couldn't see Harper taking someone who was specializing in, say, etiquette or law, but music or calligraphy? Where they could make some money

[brazenbronzer]

This has already been happening. P'draig pursued his Journeyman knot, and M'try has been going back to the Hall the past couple of months to finish his training as well. So I think we can establish that this is player-driven and already occurring.

Yes, but I would have appreciated having this discussion happen before people went ahead and started making game-changing canon decisions all on their own.

[blueaid]

I'm sure you could have brought it up before people started doing whatever it is you think we're doing, but-- since no one did-- I'm pretty sure that's part of the reason we're trying to iron things out now. So, you know, people can continue to RP and have fun, seeing as I think that's why we're all here.

I'm sure, if it comes down to it and it's decided that rider-crafters aren't canon, we can always retcon that obviously game-shattering RP. It just doesn't seem like that's the direction things are going.

[leovaried]

I'm sure you could have brought it up before people started doing whatever it is you think we're doing

I'm... not sure how it could have been brought up before people started doing it. Even if people had been shooting the breeze about it, there's a difference between that and actually taking action.

As for retconning, don't know anyone who likes to do that.