I have various styles. Sometimes when I'm in the head of a character it can flow like a stream, fully formed and elegant. Trying to write longer fic is like pulling teeth for me; each part takes so long to form. I'm not good at description at all.
Sometimes when I'm in the head of a character it can flow like a stream, fully formed and elegant.
That really helps, doesn't it? My strength is dialogue, but only for certain characters. I have to edit it all out, because I could just write pages and pages of characters having conversations.
I guess I'm the queen of shitty first drafts. The expression is stolen from Anne Lamott, but I love it. Because this is what I do: write it all down, in bits and pieces. Never in a linear structure, which is why I would fail at posting WIPs. Usually, I start with single scenes, some core idea what the story could be about, and I write all that down. Then I connect the scenes and wonder a bit more about the motives of the characters. When I can't see any further, I switch to editing mode and try to eliminate everything that makes me cringe, see if I see something else, write that down and edit once more. Then it goes to the betas. They ask questions and I see how stuff is missing on the page that exists in my head. Or I have no clue and then I have to go and listen to the characters, watch them closely and write more shitty first stuff. And so on. My usual number of versions goes from two to five or six. With the exception of one fic where I wrote fourteen versions over the course of two and a half years - but I was a little obsessed
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Because this is what I do: write it all down, in bits and pieces. Never in a linear structure
I daren't do that: I would write all the 'interesting' bits and then never finish the story! Also I find that I need to have made the journey with the POV character, to experience what he's gone through. On the few occasions that I wrote scenes out of order, I had to rewrite the later ones as I found they were no longer what I wanted after I'd gone back and done the earlier ones. I guess I only know where I'm going after I've made the journey!
Usually, I start with single scenes, some core idea what the story could be about, and I write all that down. Then I connect the scenes and wonder a bit more about the motives of the characters. Yes. The 'inciting idea' sparks off a train of thought in my head, but I don't write for a few days. I wait till it's burning a hole in my head: normally that will take two or three days, and my subconscious will have been chewing away at the story too. It's usual in that stage for me to lull myself to
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Sorry for not replying sooner! Your comment somehow got moved from my inbox-folder, and cleaning up today, I found it. *blushes*
I had to rewrite the later ones as I found they were no longer what I wanted after I'd gone back and done the earlier ones.I don't mind changing a scenes once I get there again and find that they don't work any longer. But most of the times, those early written scenes hold a core that will get used in the story sooner or later. So sometimes I move a scene from one place to another or even split it up into separate ideas or re-write it from a different perspective, but I will mostly keep the core
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I have a number of different modes, I've found. There are certain characters who just click -- I don't know why; they really have no pattern as far as I can see -- and I can spit out hundreds of words in one sitting and they just feel right. And then there are others that take laborious drafts and constant staring at the computer screen wondering why the words aren't doing what I want them to do.
Thankfully I have a number of lovely people who are willing to beta-read for me, which is probably a particularly annoying chore since I'm liable to make edits and send them about twelve drafts before I'm happy enough with what I've written to have them even read it!
have a number of different modes, I've found. There are certain characters who just click -- I don't know why; they really have no pattern as far as I can see -- and I can spit out hundreds of words in one sitting and they just feel right. And then there are others that take laborious drafts and constant staring at the computer screen wondering why the words aren't doing what I want them to do.
Yeah, everything you've said here really resonates. I find that I can write Remus in a wide variety of situations, and give me a Remus-Harry dialogue and I ould probably turn out something as long as DH. And then some stories just have to be hacked out of the living rock inch by blood-spattered inch, and I know they're in there!
Thankfully I have a number of lovely people who are willing to beta-read for me, which is probably a particularly annoying chore since I'm liable to make edits and send them about twelve drafts before I'm happy enough with what I've written to have them even read it!I usually go through the twelve drafts privately
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And then some stories just have to be hacked out of the living rock inch by blood-spattered inch, and I know they're in there!
That sounds like my dissertation...but also certain characters. I actually had more trouble writing Remus than, for instance, Sirius. Mostly because Remus for some reason was always a bit occluded for me -- I was never entirely sure what was going on inside his head.
'It would be nice if you told the reader something about what is going on.'
Hee! A fairly consistent piece of criticism I get is that I spend too much time on dialogue and too little on plot. But dialogue is how I figure characters out, I've found.
I think we've talked before about how different our writing habits are :). Me, I don't do drafts apart from writing out most of my stories by hand and editing them while typing. Then they get another one-over before they're done and off to the beta. And I practically have to whip myself to go through the writing process, without much attention to style or anything. I do get passages or lines pop into my head where I *know* they're good, but everything else is just scribbling down. I don't even think about quality when writing, and editing never leads to significant word count reduction (the opposite, rather), only takes care of a few superfluous fillers and adjectives/adverbs.
Well, apart from endless circular dialogue that tends to pop up when I'm working up to a sex scene I hate writing - but that's pretty much the only thing I prune systematically :).
I think we've talked before about how different our writing habits are :).
I think that may be true...!
Me, I don't do drafts apart from writing out most of my stories by hand and editing them while typing. Then they get another one-over before they're done and off to the beta. And I practically have to whip myself to go through the writing process, without much attention to style or anything. I do get passages or lines pop into my head where I *know* they're good, but everything else is just scribbling down.
I don't get that 'know they're good' feeling very often. And I'm absolutely not fishing for compliments here: I wonder if maybe I search so hard for 'better' that sometimes I miss the 'good'. In the Sirius, the bit I like best was the witches' fingers (and I had seen icicles like that only recently!) but I wasn't sure whether I should delete the broken glass image for the dog's dreams: I thought it was pretty but I wasn't really sure it belonged. It nearly wasn't in the version you saw!
I'm not sure I'd label those two styles the way you do (especially the pejorative 'drivel on'). The style used in the short Sirius piece -- seemingly quite common in fanfics -- always strikes me as very ... well, stylised, and probably best suited to that kind of short character study. I'm not sure it would work especially well in a longer, plotty piece. It's rather like an actor declaiming lines as compared to trying to make them sound natural -- the former can certainly be effective, but you're aware you're witnessing a Performance rather than being drawn into the story. Likewise, with the stylistic approach you tend to be aware of the writing itself as much as what it's saying -- or at least I do.
To be honest, the Merlin paragraph you posted sounded OK -- it could do with some polishing, yes, but there's nothing which looks like obvious padding that doesn't add something to the scene. I think maybe you're often too hard on yourself with what you think as 'drivel mode' or even
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Oh, you know, you do it quite often. You're one of the people I really listen very hard to. Not that it shows!
I'm not sure I'd label those two styles the way you do (especially the pejorative 'drivel on'). The style used in the short Sirius piece -- seemingly quite common in fanfics -- always strikes me as very ... well, stylised, and probably best suited to that kind of short character study. I'm not sure it would work especially well in a longer, plotty piece. It's rather like an actor declaiming lines as compared to trying to make them sound natural -- the former can certainly be effective, but you're aware you're witnessing a Performance rather than being drawn into the story. Likewise, with the stylistic approach you tend to be aware of the writing itself as much as what it's saying -- or at least I do.I absolutely agree with you here. To be honest, I enjoy the 'editor-on' mode of writing as a way of flexing muscles, but it's
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Don't suppose you would care to expand on that (assuming you want to and have time, of course)? I know I felt that the last scene was an abrupt move on from the rest, but I didn't think it was that unconnected, so I'd love to know what didn't gel. It could again be me thinking that I've made links in the story that are actually only in my head. By 'canonically odd', do you mean S waiting with R for Pomfrey or something else?Okay, IMHO, YMMV, etc
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Oh, about the other stuffsnorkackcatcherFebruary 3 2009, 00:51:46 UTC
I think when one gets too close to a story - and that one took five months from writing to posting, because it was my first one - I wonder if you do only see the holes? What's your experience with that? I'm thinking in particular of NTLJ as your longest so far; you may of course have other examples!I tend to see the holes only in retrospect -- certainly with NTLJ I wince at some of the clunky bits and the general ramshackle nature inevitable in a long story written off and on over a period of about two years and large chunks of which were made up as I went along. The early chapters especially feel variously weak, clumsy, and self-indulgent in parts, and there are Issues with characterisations -- one thing the CADOD did make me realise was how much I fall back on stereotypes and shorthands for anyone who isn't like me in some way. (e.g. Americans, Canadians, Irish, even Yorkshiremen!) It's a fairly grievous writerly limitation, and unfortunately one based on personality flaws rather than lack of practice. I did think of trying to match
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That really helps, doesn't it? My strength is dialogue, but only for certain characters. I have to edit it all out, because I could just write pages and pages of characters having conversations.
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I daren't do that: I would write all the 'interesting' bits and then never finish the story! Also I find that I need to have made the journey with the POV character, to experience what he's gone through. On the few occasions that I wrote scenes out of order, I had to rewrite the later ones as I found they were no longer what I wanted after I'd gone back and done the earlier ones. I guess I only know where I'm going after I've made the journey!
Usually, I start with single scenes, some core idea what the story could be about, and I write all that down. Then I connect the scenes and wonder a bit more about the motives of the characters. Yes. The 'inciting idea' sparks off a train of thought in my head, but I don't write for a few days. I wait till it's burning a hole in my head: normally that will take two or three days, and my subconscious will have been chewing away at the story too. It's usual in that stage for me to lull myself to ( ... )
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I had to rewrite the later ones as I found they were no longer what I wanted after I'd gone back and done the earlier ones.I don't mind changing a scenes once I get there again and find that they don't work any longer. But most of the times, those early written scenes hold a core that will get used in the story sooner or later. So sometimes I move a scene from one place to another or even split it up into separate ideas or re-write it from a different perspective, but I will mostly keep the core ( ... )
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Thankfully I have a number of lovely people who are willing to beta-read for me, which is probably a particularly annoying chore since I'm liable to make edits and send them about twelve drafts before I'm happy enough with what I've written to have them even read it!
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Yeah, everything you've said here really resonates. I find that I can write Remus in a wide variety of situations, and give me a Remus-Harry dialogue and I ould probably turn out something as long as DH. And then some stories just have to be hacked out of the living rock inch by blood-spattered inch, and I know they're in there!
Thankfully I have a number of lovely people who are willing to beta-read for me, which is probably a particularly annoying chore since I'm liable to make edits and send them about twelve drafts before I'm happy enough with what I've written to have them even read it!I usually go through the twelve drafts privately ( ... )
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That sounds like my dissertation...but also certain characters. I actually had more trouble writing Remus than, for instance, Sirius. Mostly because Remus for some reason was always a bit occluded for me -- I was never entirely sure what was going on inside his head.
'It would be nice if you told the reader something about what is going on.'
Hee! A fairly consistent piece of criticism I get is that I spend too much time on dialogue and too little on plot. But dialogue is how I figure characters out, I've found.
Reply
Well, apart from endless circular dialogue that tends to pop up when I'm working up to a sex scene I hate writing - but that's pretty much the only thing I prune systematically :).
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I think that may be true...!
Me, I don't do drafts apart from writing out most of my stories by hand and editing them while typing. Then they get another one-over before they're done and off to the beta. And I practically have to whip myself to go through the writing process, without much attention to style or anything. I do get passages or lines pop into my head where I *know* they're good, but everything else is just scribbling down.
I don't get that 'know they're good' feeling very often. And I'm absolutely not fishing for compliments here: I wonder if maybe I search so hard for 'better' that sometimes I miss the 'good'. In the Sirius, the bit I like best was the witches' fingers (and I had seen icicles like that only recently!) but I wasn't sure whether I should delete the broken glass image for the dog's dreams: I thought it was pretty but I wasn't really sure it belonged. It nearly wasn't in the version you saw!
I don't even think about quality ( ... )
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I'm not sure I'd label those two styles the way you do (especially the pejorative 'drivel on'). The style used in the short Sirius piece -- seemingly quite common in fanfics -- always strikes me as very ... well, stylised, and probably best suited to that kind of short character study. I'm not sure it would work especially well in a longer, plotty piece. It's rather like an actor declaiming lines as compared to trying to make them sound natural -- the former can certainly be effective, but you're aware you're witnessing a Performance rather than being drawn into the story. Likewise, with the stylistic approach you tend to be aware of the writing itself as much as what it's saying -- or at least I do.
To be honest, the Merlin paragraph you posted sounded OK -- it could do with some polishing, yes, but there's nothing which looks like obvious padding that doesn't add something to the scene. I think maybe you're often too hard on yourself with what you think as 'drivel mode' or even ( ... )
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I said something perceptive? How did that happen?
Oh, you know, you do it quite often. You're one of the people I really listen very hard to. Not that it shows!
I'm not sure I'd label those two styles the way you do (especially the pejorative 'drivel on'). The style used in the short Sirius piece -- seemingly quite common in fanfics -- always strikes me as very ... well, stylised, and probably best suited to that kind of short character study. I'm not sure it would work especially well in a longer, plotty piece. It's rather like an actor declaiming lines as compared to trying to make them sound natural -- the former can certainly be effective, but you're aware you're witnessing a Performance rather than being drawn into the story. Likewise, with the stylistic approach you tend to be aware of the writing itself as much as what it's saying -- or at least I do.I absolutely agree with you here. To be honest, I enjoy the 'editor-on' mode of writing as a way of flexing muscles, but it's ( ... )
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