Game of Thrones vs. the Bechdel/Wallace Test

[lainvess]

Let's talk about the Bechdel/Wallace Test.
...no, let's not, because that would warrant a whole entry by itself. Read the Wikipedia article if you'd like more information. Let me just give you the short version

Comments

[oloriel]

At 45:50, Irri discovers Danaerys is pregnant. Technically, they are talking about a man, as Danaerys carries a boy. But neither of them know this yet, and biologically speaking I'm not sure the foetus really has a gender at this point. So it probably counts?IIRC - strictly speaking - if it's a fetus, it's got a distinct sex (the anatomically indistinguishable sexual organs develop into a proto-clitoris-and-vagina-combo or proto-penis-and-testicle-combo at around 7-8 weeks, when the ickle thing is still an embryo). In other words, by the time you know for certain that your missing period is not just a random fluke, the genetically fixed sex will already have made an impact on the anatomy

[lainvess]

IIRC - strictly speaking - if it's a fetus, it's got a distinct sex (the anatomically indistinguishable sexual organs develop into a proto-clitoris-and-vagina-combo or proto-penis-and-testicle-combo at around 7-8 weeks, when the ickle thing is still an embryo). In other words, by the time you know for certain that your missing period is not just a random fluke, the genetically fixed sex will already have made an impact on the anatomy.
Thanks for clearing that up! :D (And for unintentionally highlighting my typo ;))
Well, in the next scene Irri tells Rakharo that Danaerys hasn't bled for two months, so we're definitely in fixed-sex-territory. But again: they don't know that.

As talking about pregnancy invariably implicates the man who was involved in the conception, though, I don't think this counts as a pass anyway.
Implication is one thing, actual mentioning another. If you're that strict, you can hardly count any of the conversations, as in the world of the show pretty much everything women do revolves around making a good wife some

[oloriel]

Implication is one thing, actual mentioning another. If you're that strict, you can hardly count any of the conversations, as in the world of the show pretty much everything women do revolves around making a good wife some day, so basically anything any of them ever say implicates some man or another. In the pilot, when Cersei is asking Sansa a lot of questions about herself, are we meant to discount this because Cersei is clearly asking all this because Sansa is meant to marry Cersei's son? When Mordane compliments Sansa's needlework, is this a fail because in that world, saying "what fine stitches, my lady" basically says "that's a skill to impress a prospective husband with"?Personally I'd say that yes, the "daughter-in-law" thing makes a (half-?)fail because obviously, nobody is planning to marry Sansa to another woman. The needlework is definitely a pass - I don't think a prospective husband would pay much attention to it (unless it were bad), it's more something the prospective mother-in-law might care about, but in general,

[gwaevalarin]

Interesting.
Now I wonder: Has anyone ever checked for the... reverse version of the test? Look for male characters who talk about anything but women? To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how that'd turn out, at least if you decide to be strict, and mentioning someone of the other gender already counts as a fail.
(I don't mean to doubt the issue, but the scientist in me distrusts the worth of any test without a control test. ;))

[oloriel]

That's a good point! I think there are going to be a lot of incidences (men talking about other men, or war, or zombies from beyond the wall, or whatever), but of course the only conversation that comes to my mind right now is Nearly Headless Ned and King Rob discussing Jon Snow's mother. :P ;)

[lainvess]

The Reverse Bechdel Test is a thing, yes. Needless to say, however, pretty much every flick ever passes it.
So does GoT. If only for its sheer number of male characters. First bits that come to my mind are the Stark kids in the Family Introduction Scene (which I love), Ned beheading the Night's Watch Brother and the following conversation with Bran... actually, you know, it could be interesting to watch the series for that.
But I'll be re-watching season two next, which I think has a far easier time passing this as there are So. Many. Kings! to talk about.

ETA:Bugger this, you know what? I'm just gonna skip through it now.

Nearly Headless Ned
*dies laughing*

[oloriel]

Is doch wahr!