So I was thinking about Bechdel's law earlier. In a comic strip by Alison Bechdel, a character explains that she only watches a movie if it
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*sob* Don't hurt me that way! Because you know I'd have to read it!
Nah, I have faith in you, and there are pieces, one or two, that I've read it in and enjoyed. But there's nothing that'll put me off quicker unless I really, really trust the writer.
Well, I did say it was perverse. *sheepish* I don't actually have a bunny for it, even. My first X-Men idea -- well, idea that seized me and wanted to be a story, as opposed to wacky private often-Mary-Sueish nonsense -- was first-person... and for that matter, involved a bunch of resurrections including Illyana, a cure for Legacy, and an uberpowered (canonically, but still) main character. While I didn't worry about the POV, I did know enough to realize many of these were considered warning signs. It went over remarkably well, all things considered. *g* But that hasn't happened with most other fandoms.
But I really appreciate the expression of confidence.
Comics fandoms are so often exempt from many of the usual fandom no-nos. There was a post aways back about the DCU, someone showed that all of the 30 standard "crack" plots were canonical somewhere in the DCU. I don't know as much about Marcel but I would't be surprised if it was the same!
What bothers me a lot is, especially in kids movies, unless it's Specifically! A! Girls'! Movie! girls are only ever mothers or love interests. It's sad.
Gah! I'm fully not into the zomg patriarchy! Gender is entirely a social construct! Sex is rape! stereotypical brand of feminism but the male dominance of pop culture is kind of disgraceful....
THAT was Alison Bechdel? I remember seeing that cartoon in Bitch -- or at least it was quoted -- years ago, but hadn't connected it with the Alison Bechdel who was interviewed in the latest issue about her new memoir.
It can be hard but it so shouldn't be. I mean, it's not like it insists that every woman has a line of feminist dialogue, or even that there's a woman with a main role, or anything. All it wants is a conversation - I mean, I don't think there are many texts that don't do this for men. *glum*
Oh, yeah, actually, good point. I will read Scrubs fanfic in first person because the canon is in first person, that's very true.
One conversation that is not about a relationship. That's all that the rule requires. But it is surprisingly hard.
Buffy probably achieves that once in a while, maybe... they talk about the monster, surely? But, like you say, there's stuff I'm not entirely comfortable with, particularly in later seasons.
For men, there is probably never this much of a problem. You've always got stereotypical conversations about sport to fall back on, at least.
Mmm, it's always best to go with the canon POV, actually. Unless one's efforts sound like a pale imitation, in which case it's best to go with third person omniscient.
And there's always the good author caveat. *grins* Or the experimental technique, in which the story has to actually be that POV in order to work (say, a mystery, or something central to the character). But, yes.
(Actually, my own rules are kinda flexible. *grin*)
Actually, Buffy is surprisingly bad for this. Think about it: most of the time when Buffy is talking to Willow, they're talking about Angel. Or Xander. "Work" discussions are usually held in co-ed groups. Anya: only talks to the other girls, alone, about Xander. Dawn/Buffy convos might pass, but that's in a completely different context (familial.)
Hell, even a show like Bones fails this in situations where it shouldn't. Female boss has three subordinates, two male, one female. 90% of her solo conversations with male subordinates: work-related. 90% of conversations with female subordinate: about men, even though they have exactly as much narrative and situational reason to be talking about work.
Re: Joss Whedon and Bechdel's lawlabellementeuseJune 18 2006, 19:07:00 UTC
Believe you me, I adore Joss' stuff and think he is wonderful, and I'm really excited about Wonder Woman. He scripted X-men and X2 as well, IIRC, and they have some good girl moments. And I really respect his conscious devotion to the cause of feminism
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Nah, I have faith in you, and there are pieces, one or two, that I've read it in and enjoyed. But there's nothing that'll put me off quicker unless I really, really trust the writer.
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But I really appreciate the expression of confidence.
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Ah, you know I adore your stuff. :)
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Fanfic in first person works sometimes, if the canon has first person. This is the only excuse.
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Oh, yeah, actually, good point. I will read Scrubs fanfic in first person because the canon is in first person, that's very true.
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Buffy probably achieves that once in a while, maybe... they talk about the monster, surely? But, like you say, there's stuff I'm not entirely comfortable with, particularly in later seasons.
For men, there is probably never this much of a problem. You've always got stereotypical conversations about sport to fall back on, at least.
Mmm, it's always best to go with the canon POV, actually. Unless one's efforts sound like a pale imitation, in which case it's best to go with third person omniscient.
And there's always the good author caveat. *grins* Or the experimental technique, in which the story has to actually be that POV in order to work (say, a mystery, or something central to the character). But, yes.
(Actually, my own rules are kinda flexible. *grin*)
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Hell, even a show like Bones fails this in situations where it shouldn't. Female boss has three subordinates, two male, one female. 90% of her solo conversations with male subordinates: work-related. 90% of conversations with female subordinate: about men, even though they have exactly as much narrative and situational reason to be talking about work.
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I ... I can't hear you! LA LA LA!
...but I don't want Joss to be one of the stupid guys. I love his usual respect for feminism. Crud.
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Phooey.
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