Hmm, I always imagine he did the hack himself, i.e. they took out the scene where he used Gaila for that hack specifically for that reason. It is not canon that he used her to do the deed, it is in the cut scenes, and a lot of authors use it in their fic, but in my honest opinion, I agree with the reason they took it out. It makes him too hateful.
The fact that he took the test two previous times before resorting to hacking the program also speaks to me, of frustration, and resentment of a lesson of which he has cut his teeth on. He decided to change his life, and believe in more than his father lost and what he lost, his father won, because 800 people including he, and his mother are alive. Shrugs, the not giving up, and not giving in thing always seems fairly central to me. I must admit I am curious what you think his reasoning is.. :D -SB
LOL. I said I had an opinion, I didn't say I'd share it. :D
The thing is, the question was sparked by a piece I'm working on now. I don't know how much of my reflections will make it into the final draft, but it made me make sort of a reflective detour. I obviously don't want to retell the piece, particularly if it remains a draft only. >.<
The truth is, to me, Jim Kirk (in any universe) is a human first, and genius/badass/whatever later. And being human usually means, well, being human. With all the implications of the title.
First of all, I ignore that he might have used Gaila *agrees with slvrbld*
Then, I think he did it because he really thought it was an unfair test. Either you've got a test and some tiny chance to win, or it's a cheat from the instructors. (A bit like teachers who never give full points, stating no student is good for them - then the scale IMHO is just wrong.) I think he just doesn't see the point of being subjected to a no-win situation before it really happens, outside of frustrating the students. So he decided to redefine the test and I actually love that. It's still so Kirk.
(But with the Gaila connection, especially not being able to tell her apart from another Orion, he would've been a super-jerk.)
I actually think he did use Gaila, because if Spock's security measures were so lame that the programming could be accessed from outside, the test would have been hacked years ago. At the very least, attempts would have been made. On the hearing, Spock says, 'You somehow introduced a subroutine' which means he has no idea how it happened. Which doesn't exactly sound as a direct attack or a virus, because those leave traces.
I do prefer to think the apologizing scene never happened. Because I love Jim, yes, but mostly because I think it would be OOC.
Smartass answer: Because TOS!Kirk did it and Orci and Kurtzman were being cute, trying to appeal, all inside-joke-like, to we Trek diehards who grew up on TOS (the same reason Sulu's fencing was mentioned, and we get the scene where Bones got his nickname *sniff* great scene, that). ;-)
Answer as the Kirk lover I am:
#2 AND #3
I summed up my feelings on the Kobayashi Maru in my fic "Entire of Himself"...
And that feeling of isolation only magnifies when you find out that you’re being brought up on charges of cheating on the Kobayashi Maru. If ever there was an indication in your life, an exact moment you could point to and say, ‘see, universe? No one gets it! Gets me!’ this is it. Because you had thought that cheating was the solution to the test. The test was unwinnable, there had been no way around it. In the way it had been programmed, it was impossible for the Captain and crew of this imaginary vessel to come out alive. You should know, you had already tried it twice before. And it was after that second time that you had
( ... )
Another question might be, why did TOS!Kirk do it? Because his motivation, I believe would be different but also the same. We know, by his own admission, that TOS!Kirk was a serious student while in the academy, accepted at a young age and felt indebted to his benefactors thus motivated to not only do well but to exceed expectations. We also know that TOS!Kirk graduated in the top five percent of his class.
Quotes from "The Wrath of Khan" (god I love this movie):
Spock: The Kobayashi Maru scenario frequently wreaks havoc on students and equipment. As I recall you took the test three times yourself. Your final solution was, shall we say, unique? Kirk: It had the virtue of never having been tried.
I would say TOS Kirk had his reasons less grave. I don't like to lose pretty much covers it. We could go digging (some of us have :D) of course about why he hates losing so much, and what it means for him, but that's like a whole other story.
The thing is, it's a matter of philosiphy from a certain point. What is more difficult: to try and find the solution under impossible conditions or to say that conditions are wrong and change them? Because this is the difference between a test room and the real world. Which sort of makes one wonder -- which position is more defeat -ish?
We could go digging (some of us have :D) of course about why he hates losing so much, and what it means for him, but that's like a whole other story.
...Getting a TOS fic idea. Damnit, I'm supposed to be packing. ;-)
Which sort of makes one wonder -- which position is more defeat -ish?
Good point, I never thought of it that way. I would say, knee-jerk reaction, both. As Jim learned, perhaps for the first time, at the end of tWoK... sometimes winning (Spock saving hundreds of lives with his actions) is also losing and/or paying a price that too dear to ones heart (Jim being forced to confront a world without Spock at his side). You can shape the test, but you can't shape the fallout.
For me this new Jim (because we can't really compare him to the TOS Kirk, even if they both took the test two times before hacking it) has some strange urge of doing everything in original way. HIS way. I will finish in three years, I will pass KM... Maybe because as a son of a dead hero his life was previously written for him by others? Or maybe he thought that that was the case? After all there was a shipyard name after his father in his own town. As for Gaila - it's really good that they cut out the scene (together with the apologising to Gaila), because that would show him as a prick and bastard. And ok he may have issues but nothing explains THAT kind of shit.
I've never quite understood the motivation myself for the NuKirk, aside that JJ thought it would be a cute in-nod to the character. But I would venture that jaylee_g up there has the best answer from a characterization perspective.
I could get better why TOS!Kirk did it -- obviously -- but aside from the novel Kobayashi Maru, there's no particular canon for how. But from a characterization perspective, I understand it.
I said above, this whole thing makes very little sense to me, nods or no nods. Starting with why such a stupid test exists in the first place and exactly what is it supposed to prove and ending with some very strange bit of dialogue at the hearing, in which there is no common sense at all. It kind of frustrates me. ;)
TOS!Kirk doing it felt right -- it fell in line with his characterization throughout the series and into the movies; his never-lose attitude, in part, but how he carries himself as well. There's a great deal of sheer personality that makes it make sense. Nu!Kirk seems almost too... I dunno. Fragile, in his own way. Even though he likely was never meant to. I don't see him doing this, but since he did...
There's no canon for how TOS!Kirk did it. But it felt right that he did, and I don't think he would have used someone like Gaila to do it. He would have found another way, for certain. I doubt he would have been so arrogant about it when he did do it -- he would have stiffly and proudly held his ground, not acted like he'd just pulled the wool over everyone's eyes with a devil-may-care grin.
I suppose I can buy TOS!Kirk doing it because he did come across as more military, even when he was doing anything but.
I agree about the 'carrying himself' thing. This is what struck me about the hearing scene -- Jim didn't look like someone who went out to prove himself or to prove that the test was unfair and was proud of his accomplishment. He looked like someone who was just hit by a bus. Which kind of doesn't go along with the point of the whole hacking the test thing.
*shrugs* I don't know. I do think he used Gaila, because it makes more sense technicality-wise, but other than that I'm at a loss to explain what the writers were thinking.
TOS!Kirk never struck me as someone having self-esteem issues, whereas nuJim does it all the time. So yeah, this is confusing.
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Hmm, I always imagine he did the hack himself, i.e. they took out the scene where he used Gaila for that hack specifically for that reason. It is not canon that he used her to do the deed, it is in the cut scenes, and a lot of authors use it in their fic, but in my honest opinion, I agree with the reason they took it out. It makes him too hateful.
The fact that he took the test two previous times before resorting to hacking the program also speaks to me, of frustration, and resentment of a lesson of which he has cut his teeth on. He decided to change his life, and believe in more than his father lost and what he lost, his father won, because 800 people including he, and his mother are alive. Shrugs, the not giving up, and not giving in thing always seems fairly central to me. I must admit I am curious what you think his reasoning is.. :D -SB
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The thing is, the question was sparked by a piece I'm working on now. I don't know how much of my reflections will make it into the final draft, but it made me make sort of a reflective detour. I obviously don't want to retell the piece, particularly if it remains a draft only. >.<
The truth is, to me, Jim Kirk (in any universe) is a human first, and genius/badass/whatever later. And being human usually means, well, being human. With all the implications of the title.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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Then, I think he did it because he really thought it was an unfair test. Either you've got a test and some tiny chance to win, or it's a cheat from the instructors. (A bit like teachers who never give full points, stating no student is good for them - then the scale IMHO is just wrong.) I think he just doesn't see the point of being subjected to a no-win situation before it really happens, outside of frustrating the students. So he decided to redefine the test and I actually love that. It's still so Kirk.
(But with the Gaila connection, especially not being able to tell her apart from another Orion, he would've been a super-jerk.)
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I do prefer to think the apologizing scene never happened. Because I love Jim, yes, but mostly because I think it would be OOC.
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It makes sense. I think it's close to #2 category, but in a more humanized way, which is a huge bonus IMO. :)
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Answer as the Kirk lover I am:
#2 AND #3
I summed up my feelings on the Kobayashi Maru in my fic "Entire of Himself"...
And that feeling of isolation only magnifies when you find out that you’re being brought up on charges of cheating on the Kobayashi Maru. If ever there was an indication in your life, an exact moment you could point to and say, ‘see, universe? No one gets it! Gets me!’ this is it. Because you had thought that cheating was the solution to the test. The test was unwinnable, there had been no way around it. In the way it had been programmed, it was impossible for the Captain and crew of this imaginary vessel to come out alive. You should know, you had already tried it twice before. And it was after that second time that you had ( ... )
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Quotes from "The Wrath of Khan" (god I love this movie):
Spock: The Kobayashi Maru scenario frequently wreaks havoc on students and equipment. As I recall you took the test three times yourself. Your final solution was, shall we say, unique?
Kirk: It had the virtue of never having been tried.
And later...
Saavik: Admiral, may I ask you a question ( ... )
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The thing is, it's a matter of philosiphy from a certain point. What is more difficult: to try and find the solution under impossible conditions or to say that conditions are wrong and change them? Because this is the difference between a test room and the real world. Which sort of makes one wonder -- which position is more defeat -ish?
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...Getting a TOS fic idea. Damnit, I'm supposed to be packing. ;-)
Which sort of makes one wonder -- which position is more defeat -ish?
Good point, I never thought of it that way. I would say, knee-jerk reaction, both. As Jim learned, perhaps for the first time, at the end of tWoK... sometimes winning (Spock saving hundreds of lives with his actions) is also losing and/or paying a price that too dear to ones heart (Jim being forced to confront a world without Spock at his side). You can shape the test, but you can't shape the fallout.
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As for Gaila - it's really good that they cut out the scene (together with the apologising to Gaila), because that would show him as a prick and bastard. And ok he may have issues but nothing explains THAT kind of shit.
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I could get better why TOS!Kirk did it -- obviously -- but aside from the novel Kobayashi Maru, there's no particular canon for how. But from a characterization perspective, I understand it.
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Wanna talk about TOS Kirk?
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TOS!Kirk doing it felt right -- it fell in line with his characterization throughout the series and into the movies; his never-lose attitude, in part, but how he carries himself as well. There's a great deal of sheer personality that makes it make sense. Nu!Kirk seems almost too... I dunno. Fragile, in his own way. Even though he likely was never meant to. I don't see him doing this, but since he did...
There's no canon for how TOS!Kirk did it. But it felt right that he did, and I don't think he would have used someone like Gaila to do it. He would have found another way, for certain. I doubt he would have been so arrogant about it when he did do it -- he would have stiffly and proudly held his ground, not acted like he'd just pulled the wool over everyone's eyes with a devil-may-care grin.
I suppose I can buy TOS!Kirk doing it because he did come across as more military, even when he was doing anything but.
My brain's some fried, but those're my notions.
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I agree about the 'carrying himself' thing. This is what struck me about the hearing scene -- Jim didn't look like someone who went out to prove himself or to prove that the test was unfair and was proud of his accomplishment. He looked like someone who was just hit by a bus. Which kind of doesn't go along with the point of the whole hacking the test thing.
*shrugs* I don't know. I do think he used Gaila, because it makes more sense technicality-wise, but other than that I'm at a loss to explain what the writers were thinking.
TOS!Kirk never struck me as someone having self-esteem issues, whereas nuJim does it all the time. So yeah, this is confusing.
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