CoC in demand

[kattahj]

So, I started thinking about just how many CoCs are underrepresented in fandom, sometimes vastly so (*cough* Gus on Psych * cough*), and it became rather depressing - and then I started wondering about the ones that aren't underrepresented, and why that is.

At which point thelana made a very interesting post about that, among other things. Her example of

Comments

[thelana]

Bashir and Sisko are interesting cases though. Sisko was a black man and the one in charge of the station. Yet the way I understand he was barely ever written (though in my mind there should at least have been pseudo-slash/het with him and Dax

[tiferet]

I have a frightening amount of Thoughts On Yaoi relating to these matters that I'm always hesitant to air because I keep running into people who believe there's only one way to think about this stuff that's okay (and I think they have some good points but the absolutism and vehemence with which they express themselves when you disagree with some of their other points means I withdraw from discussions once they get going--the phrase "your intentions mean NOTHING" is my signal to leave, because while I do believe if you knock someone over they're still knocked over whether or not you meant to, when it comes to words, the possibility of misunderstanding always exists

[londonkds]

Oh yes, Bashir's father has a much more working-class accent. Not having seen the episode for ages I can't quite remember if it was London or West Yorkshire (both of which are stereotypical high-Asian-population regions in the UK). His mother was white wasn't she? (Siddig is Arab but looks as if he could be half-AngloSaxon-half-South-Asian which works with the casting of his parents.)

[scrollgirl]

Actually, you've got it switched around. Siddig is of Arab descent from his father's side and English on his mother's, while both of Bashir's parents are Asian (Arab?). Bashir's father has a working-class English accent (let me know if you ever determine which region!) and his mother has an Asian accent.

[londonkds]

Ah yes, tracking down stills, I don't know why I thought his mother was white, they're both South Asian.

[londonkds]

North Americans often refer to Bashir as being racially hard to pin down or seeming white, but over here in the UK he was instantly recognisable to most fans as upper-middle-class Muslim British Asian (who you do encounter quite a bit in the medical profession, as well).

[legionseagle]

Over here in the UK he was instantly recognisable to most fans as upper-middle-class Muslim British Asian (who you do encounter quite a bit in the medical profession, as well)

And in which regard one can see the differing views of Mrs Shand-Kydd and her daughter in terms of class/racial suitability as a partner, showing a generational shift in acceptability over the period 1960s/1990s

[scrollgirl]

upper-middle-class Muslim British Asian

What I'd've loved to see was more of Earth religions on Trek, particularly on DS9 where faith and religion are such important themes. It would've been nice to see even a reference to a major world religion like Islam or Christianity.

The one or two fics I read in which Bashir observed Muslim traditions restricted it simply to respect for his culture, not a personal belief in Allah. But at least there are some stories that don't presume millennia-old religions will die out just because we invent warp engines!

[londonkds]

Babylon 5 was much stronger in this regard, see in particular TKO (which is otherwise awful) and the final scene of Parliament of Dreams.

[scrollgirl]

Bashir was played by an actor with Arabic roots and I read that the one time Bashir's parents showed up they were played by non-white actors too. Yet, IMO, Bashir looked white and ways played/written as white.Very interesting! I've been a DS9 fan since the 90s but re-watching the series now, it's fascinating to realise that I've become much more conscious of Bashir's ethnicity. First time around it never really registered that Bashir (Siddig) had Arabic roots, even though Bashir's parents were clearly not white and Bashir once references an ancestor with an Arabic name. The posh English accent and the uniformity of Trek humans threw me off

[thelana]

Sisko (and Avery Brooks) was more open about his black heritage, especially in later seasons. I don't know if that had anything to do with less fic being written about him, but it's a possibility. Of course, he was a recent widower and early seasons tended to not 'ship him with the female regulars (unlike Bashir's crush on Dax) and then later he paired up with Kasidy Yates (another CoC with little fic).

I always have a really hard time buying that. Because imo there are plenty of characters who are married in canon or widowers or dating women and they still get shipped like nobody's business. These kind of things always sound like poor excuses to me because many couples have these kind of obstacles yet shippers happily jump over them.

IMO, at the very least there should have been het with Dax or slash with Curson Dax and there should have been some stuff on him and Dukat because those were amongst Sisko's most intense relationships.

Having watched the DVD extras last week, I realise how very awesome Brooks, Penny Johnson (Yates)

[scrollgirl]

There was some Sisko/Dax (Jadzia and Curzon) and lots of Sisko/Dukat. IIRC, the ratio of Sisko vs O'Brien fic is about even -- Sisko might've even edged him out -- and O'Brien was married throughout the series. O'Brien was slashed with Bashir, but Sisko had more variety in pairings. But you're right, the ratio of Sisko fic compared to, say, Jadzia or Kira/Odo or Bashir is incredibly disproportionate.

I don't remember anymore where I read it, but I really loved the commentary on the one earth/past episode which deals with racism
It might've been in the DVD extras? I'll check once my S6 DVDs arrive!

they didn't have to bring a single new actor to cast the main role because they already had (for Trek standards) so many cast members of color
Very true, though I think Voyager came close:
- Chakotay and Kim for human CoC, plus Tuvok and Torres for actors of colour who played aliens
- Sisko, Jake, and Bashir for CoC, plus Worf for actor of colour who played an alien

*sigh* and then there was Enterprise

[londonkds]

I liked Bashir's accent because it was the first time I'd seen a US show explicitly depict a non-white British character (and do it quite convincingly from my external perspective, I was at school with a load of guys just like Julian).

[scrollgirl]

Heh. Part of the reason I liked SGA initially was because we FINALLY got a Canadian character! Who was the total opposite of the stereotypical "nice" Canadian! So I can sympathise :)

I have to wonder how much of Bashir's character was re-written after Siddig was cast. "Young, idealistic, greenhorn doctor" isn't specific to any ethnicity, but I'd argue that Bashir's relationship with O'Brien plays up the English-Irish thing, which we wouldn't have gotten if the doctor had been Hispanic (as initially envisioned).

Also, an interesting thing to note (not sure if you heard this before) but Siddig was originially considered for Sisko -- which I take to mean that they were colour-blind casting for Sisko. They thought Siddig was too young for station commander but they decided to use him for the doctor instead. Pretty cool, huh?