CoC in demand

[kattahj]

So, I started thinking about just how many CoCs are underrepresented in fandom, sometimes vastly so (*cough* Gus on Psych * cough*), and it became rather depressing - and then I started wondering about the ones that aren't underrepresented, and why that is.

At which point thelana made a very interesting post about that, among other things. Her example of

Comments

[thelana]

Bashir and Sisko are interesting cases though. Sisko was a black man and the one in charge of the station. Yet the way I understand he was barely ever written (though in my mind there should at least have been pseudo-slash/het with him and Dax).

Bashir was played by an actor with Arabic roots and I read that the one time Bashir's parents showed up they were played by non-white actors too. Yet, IMO, Bashir looked white and ways played/written as white. Proably with the excuse that the Treks take place so far in the future that it's normal that people don't really have any recognizable ethnic ties anymore. Bashir of course was incredibly popular in slash.

Makes me wonder if either looking white or more white and/or having the kind of background that allows people to write them without ethnic ties is an advantage if it comes from fandom popularity.

For example, from all what I heard about Martha, I always got the impression that the fact that she was middle class (or more middle class than Rose) played a bigger role than that she was black. Same with Mohinder where in doubt you can always focus on writing him as an intellectual, educated, science man rather than writing about him as an Indian man.

[tiferet]

I *definitely* think that being middle class makes characters of colour easier for white people (or any person outside of that character's ethnicity) to write. It's *difficult* to write about someone who's from the ghetto, or the barrio, or whatever, if you have no personal background with that, without resorting to stereotypes and a lot of white people are terrified of fucking it up and ending up as the latest star on FW.

[kattahj]

Makes me wonder if either looking white or more white and/or having the kind of background that allows people to write them without ethnic ties is an advantage if it comes from fandom popularity.

Probably both. I mean, there are certain non-white ethnicities that in Hollywood seem interchangeable with white ethnicities - white actors play Hispanic or Arabic, or vice versa. If the specific background is removed, I think those characters read as less "other" - or more accurately, as the same kind of "other" as everyone else in a SF show.

For example, from all what I heard about Martha, I always got the impression that the fact that she was middle class (or more middle class than Rose) played a bigger role than that she was black.

Yeah, I think class and education are important factors in that case. A woman in a professional occupation may have an easier time relating to Martha than Rose.

[tiferet]

How about Adrian Pasdar, who's Persian, playing Nathan Petrelli?

[kattahj]

*grin* That thought never entered my mind. Because I don't think about Adrian Pasdar practically every day. Nope. Not at all. *whistles innocently*

(In other words, I'm glad you were the one to mention it, because it makes me look less batshit fannish. *g*)

[tiferet]

I never mind looking batshit fannish where Adrian Pasdar is concerned. Does this tin hat clash with my shoes?

[dragovianknight]

I never understood the lack of Sisko-love in DS9. Sisko was awesome. And hot.

Yet, IMO, Bashir looked white and ways played/written as white.

I don't know that Bashir was written as white so much as very privileged. Very very Federation rich boy out on a lark, doing "real frontier medicine". ::thumps him:: (Kira deserved a medal for not wringing his neck at their first meeting.)

Personally, I never thought he looked white; mileage varies.

[scrollgirl]

Personally, I never thought he looked white; mileage varies.

Y'know, I can't remember if I ever thought he looked white or not. But I think you hit the nail on the head with "very very Federation rich boy". His privilege made him easier for me to understand. If O'Brien had been the one with the plummy accent, and Bashir had been a "working-class" English-Arab, I probably would've pinged on his ethnicity more.

I do remember that Bashir's father totally threw me off by having a very different (lower-class?) English accent.

No arguments here on Sisko's hotness!

[kattahj]

If O'Brien had been the one with the plummy accent, and Bashir had been a "working-class" English-Arab, I probably would've pinged on his ethnicity more.

This is interesting, because it ties into how ethnicity works in Sweden (where I'm from), and I wasn't sure if the US was the same. Names, accents and behaviour are just as important distinguishing factors as skin tone, or more. Not to mention that a person who is dark-haired and dark-eyed will be treated wildly different if they're seen as, say, Spanish (good), Arabic (not good) or Roma (definitely not good).

[scrollgirl]

Actually, I'm from Canada, not the United States ;)

Also, I'm the daughter of Chinese immigrants so for me, at least, how long a person has lived in Canada, how well they've integrated into Western society, is a deciding factor for how comfortable I'll be with them. That is, if you speak English fluently, I'm less likely to notice your ethnicity. If Bashir had spoken with an Arabic* accent, I would've noticed his ethnicity more.

* I have no idea what language Siddig's family speaks!

[scrollgirl]

Er. Not that I'm not comfortable with my relatives who speak in broken English. But it definitely marks them as "not from here" in a way that the kids of immigrant parents (my siblings and our friends) don't have to deal with.

[kattahj]

Actually, I'm from Canada, not the United States ;)

Ah, my apologies. For some reason, I tend to think people are American unless I know any better. :-)

[scrollgirl]

No worries! For the purposes of this discussion, Canada and the U.S. are fairly similar. And it's no secret that Canada imports a lot of television from south of the border -- though I've heard recently that our neighbours are starting to tune into more of Canada's television programming, too ;)

[kattahj]

When I was a kid, there were massive amounts of Canadian children's series on TV. You know, Oddyssey, Degrassi, stuff like that. Especially during the summer morning show, everything was either Canadian or Australian. Ah, the memories. :-) (I still have one of the Degrassi tie-in novels.)

[tiferet]

Not to mention that a person who is dark-haired and dark-eyed will be treated wildly different if they're seen as, say, Spanish (good), Arabic (not good) or Roma (definitely not good).

I have black hair, very dark eyes and white skin.

People are definitely nicer when they think I'm "white" or part-Asian than they are when they think I'm Mexican or Central American. In fact I'm adopted and have no idea. I grew up in West Virginia where there was white and black and I was definitely on the white side of that divide; in California people are not so sure.

When I travel in Europe everyone thinks I'm a local until I open my mouth. When I travel in Japan, where I sort of speak the language and have a reasonably good accent, for some reason (probably my style of dress) I read as "local, half-American, probably a military brat and possibly a thief" which is definitely negative, as opposed to "American tourist" which is mostly positive and has an attached expectation of "lots of money to spend." It's annoying but I have a good humour about it.

This is my roundabout way of saying I think it works that way everywhere. Names, accents and behaviour are really the only way we have to distinguish ethnicity at a level more specific than "Asian", "Black", and "White."

[kattahj]

This is my roundabout way of saying I think it works that way everywhere. Names, accents and behaviour are really the only way we have to distinguish ethnicity at a level more specific than "Asian", "Black", and "White."

That's interesting to know, because sometimes listening to fandom I get the impression that distinguishing races/ethnicities is So Easy and clear-cut and doesn't vary the least bit depending on where you live or the assumptions people make about you. While I have a good friend - Swedish, blue-eyed, dyes her hair black - who has considered changing her first name because it sounds foreign and she's afraid that keeps her from getting jobs. (And what the hell, if Renée Zellweger had lived in Sweden 100 years ago she would have been discriminated against for looking Sami, which is definitely not an ethnicity that matters anywhere else in the world.)