I didn't see this episode as a primer on supernatural good in the Supernatural universe - more as a collection of different characters' views on the matter. Both priests had a very dogmatic view of angels and what they did, Dean felt abandoned by good and proclaimed a very simplistic kind of "seeing is believing", Sam was very open to the idea of good embodied, since he needs to hope! I enjoyed the episode, but I think we're approaching it from different sides - you're looking for the show to have solid mythology or a statement of purpose, I'm looking at it from a character POV. (Though I agree with you absolutely on the way this totally doesn't explain anything about magic and ritual as used in the Supernatural universe
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but I think we're approaching it from different sides - you're looking for the show to have solid mythology or a statement of purpose, I'm looking at it from a character POV.
I'm not necessarily *looking* for that - I acknowledge that it's no worse from a mythological perspective than most of the other eps. The difference is that I usually don't give a crap.
I mean, I was raised very, very religious. I needed repeated pep talks from my best friend as a kid before I dared to use curse words without fear of smiting. I can't treat this like just another story. My issues, not the show's. :-)
Sam may have been arguing for smiting because he would like there to be higher powers of good, but I don't think the episode supported his view.
I think it kind of did, in that the question became "is this an angel?" rather than "is this a good thing?" But then, I'm of the opinion that it's a human's moral obligation to fight even angels if the angels are doing evil.
Also, we were dealing with one priest's idea of angels - he obviously thought of
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I mean, I was raised very, very religious. ... My issues, not the show's. :-) I was raised by Methodists so vague about religion that they may as well have been atheists (I went to Sunday School maybe half-a-dozen times in my life) so my approach to religion comes pretty much from literary and political places rather than emotional - a very different perspective indeed, and a reason why this episode didn't push buttons for me!
As for the horror trope, I think that's our different backgrounds again, because I quite happily accepted that "horror trope" might equal "angel" - it was not obvious to me that the angel would be fake (but I am fully aware that I am far less religious than most of the viewing audience and your reaction might be more common!)
I like your theory that it's better to assume it's Father Gregory at the end - whether his motivation was to help Dean, finish Sam's mission or simply stop the bad guy is irrelevant.
As for the horror trope, I think that's our different backgrounds again, because I quite happily accepted that "horror trope" might equal "angel" - it was not obvious to me that the angel would be fake (but I am fully aware that I am far less religious than most of the viewing audience and your reaction might be more common!)
I don't know. The way the story is set up, it's very traditionally SPN with two different theories and the hints leading up to the supernatural one being right - but then, angels are supernatural too, and I guess it could have been read as Dean being wrong. But knowing what kind of show it is, it seemed fairly unlikely that a messenger from God would show up.
You know, I think it would actually have been fairly cool if it had been a genuine angel who had gone fucked in the head and decided to wreak vengeance.
I like your theory that it's better to assume it's Father Gregory at the end - whether his motivation was to help Dean, finish Sam's mission or simply stop the bad guy is irrelevant.It really surprised me
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If the rapist being killed at the end of the episode was supposed to be some kind of proof for angels/God's existance, you wonder why not all the other bad people in this show get offed in similar ways. Or, for that matter, why it happened first after he'd been stopped from raping her. It just felt like an extremely forced and badly written way to get an "angels don't exist! Or do they??" message out of the episode.
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I'm not necessarily *looking* for that - I acknowledge that it's no worse from a mythological perspective than most of the other eps. The difference is that I usually don't give a crap.
I mean, I was raised very, very religious. I needed repeated pep talks from my best friend as a kid before I dared to use curse words without fear of smiting. I can't treat this like just another story. My issues, not the show's. :-)
Sam may have been arguing for smiting because he would like there to be higher powers of good, but I don't think the episode supported his view.
I think it kind of did, in that the question became "is this an angel?" rather than "is this a good thing?" But then, I'm of the opinion that it's a human's moral obligation to fight even angels if the angels are doing evil.
Also, we were dealing with one priest's idea of angels - he obviously thought of ( ... )
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I was raised by Methodists so vague about religion that they may as well have been atheists (I went to Sunday School maybe half-a-dozen times in my life) so my approach to religion comes pretty much from literary and political places rather than emotional - a very different perspective indeed, and a reason why this episode didn't push buttons for me!
As for the horror trope, I think that's our different backgrounds again, because I quite happily accepted that "horror trope" might equal "angel" - it was not obvious to me that the angel would be fake (but I am fully aware that I am far less religious than most of the viewing audience and your reaction might be more common!)
I like your theory that it's better to assume it's Father Gregory at the end - whether his motivation was to help Dean, finish Sam's mission or simply stop the bad guy is irrelevant.
Reply
I don't know. The way the story is set up, it's very traditionally SPN with two different theories and the hints leading up to the supernatural one being right - but then, angels are supernatural too, and I guess it could have been read as Dean being wrong. But knowing what kind of show it is, it seemed fairly unlikely that a messenger from God would show up.
You know, I think it would actually have been fairly cool if it had been a genuine angel who had gone fucked in the head and decided to wreak vengeance.
I like your theory that it's better to assume it's Father Gregory at the end - whether his motivation was to help Dean, finish Sam's mission or simply stop the bad guy is irrelevant.It really surprised me ( ... )
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