Ahmadinejad Welcomes the Apocalypse

[jordan179]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/09/28/do2804.xml

This is frightening, especially ...

The era of Western predominance was drawing to a close, he said, and would soon be replaced by a "bright future"

Comments

[winterlion]

some clarification:
"The promised one" in question has been prophecied for ... rather a long time. Christianity is based (rather largely - from an outside perspective) on the idea that Jesus was that promised one. This is not a legendary "12th Imam" although some say it is so. This is no different from a belief in "the second coming of Jesus". (please note: I am NOT talking anything about either party's approach to beliefs or practices, merely that both parties ARE talking about same or a similar individual)

for the rest of it - Well - no one can win an atomic war. All people can do is die.

[kalance]

for the rest of it - Well - no one can win an atomic war. All people can do is die.

W.O.P.P.R form "War Games" explained it best: "The only smart move is not to play."

And if the only alternatives are atomic war or total unconditional surrender?

[winterlion]

If "no one can win" and your own survival is paramount, I can make you my prison bitch just by threatening "the unwinnable (TM)".

NOW SQUEEEEEL LAK' A PIG, BITCH!

Re: And if the only alternatives are atomic war or total unconditional surrender?

[kalance]

You could only do that if I didn't have nukes too. Which is exactly how it went down with Japan in WWII. The US had nukes, Japan didn't, Japan gave in to a completely, 100%, unconditional, surrender. Despite the fact that their army outnumbered ours by somewhere in the neighborhood of five-to-one.

But, if I do have nukes, then I threaten you with the same outcome, and M.A.D. helps to ensure that neither of us pushes the button first. Which is one reason why nothing happened during the nuclear standoff with the USSR. Neither side wanted to start what they could not finish. Hence, "not playing".

It's basically the same principal behind owning a gun. You buy it, but don't necessarily intend to use it. You just have it in case somebody else brings one and does want to use it. Launching a nuclear war isn't a smart move the same way that looking for a firefight isn't one either

[symphonic_rp]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this is who are we to determine who has a right to nuclear technology and who doesn't? If the US has a right to nuclear power plants, so does Iran

[jordan179]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this is who are we to determine who has a right to nuclear technology and who doesn't? If the US has a right to nuclear power plants, so does Iran.

I never said that the Iranians don't have a "right" to nuclear power plants. What I said is that given the ideology of the Iranian leadership, particularly the Apocalyptic notions revealed by Ahmadinejad, the inevitable sequel will be an Iranian production and aggressive use of nuclear weapons.

Unless we stop them.

We don't rule Iran. We don't have a right to say we're going to war with Iran because their stated desire to have nuclear power plants might lead to them having nuclear bombs. If this was the case, we would end up at war with every country in the world that eventually decided to explore nuclear power.

... assuming that we were insane, ignored the whole issue of "intentions," and behaved as hostilely to our own allies or neutrals as we do to an active enemy which believes that the deaths of its own people would create enough martyrs to

[symphonic_rp]

"... assuming that we were insane, ignored the whole issue of "intentions," and behaved as hostilely to our own allies or neutrals as we do to an active enemy which believes that the deaths of its own people would create enough martyrs to cause divine intervention on their side"
Yes, that's what it's all about. We are embarking on a policy of assumptions and preventative warfare. Where does that lead? And, you know, you can never take these policies back once the precedent has been established.

You are also assuming our leadership is not crazy, or at least corrupt to its core. You are assuming our leadership can be trusted with this kind of power. Very bad assumption there - depending on if you like the original concept of America. If you'd like living in a military oriented aggressive terrorist country, it's a very good assumption."Assuming that the rest of the world is insane, and doesn't notice the fairly obvious reasons why we are becoming hostile to Iran."
Yes, it's perfectly obvious to everyone why we want to go to war with

[jordan179]

Yes, that's what it's all about. We are embarking on a policy of assumptions and preventative warfare. Where does that lead?

Hopefully, to the de-fanging of Iran, preventing a nuclear war and giving Iraq the chance to heal.

And, you know, you can never take these policies back once the precedent has been established.

Why would we want to? Though note, launching a pre-emptive strike on Iran does not mean that we would launch a pre-emptive strike on a sane incipent or minor nuclear power.

You are also assuming our leadership is not crazy, ...

We have never had leadership as crazy as that currently possessed by Iran or North Korea.

... or at least corrupt to its core.

"Corrupt" leadership is very unlikely to launch risky military adventures -- there is too much danger of a big loss. Unnecessary wars of aggression are generally the product of idealism, not corruption.

You are assuming our leadership can be trusted with this kind of power. Very bad assumption there - depending on if you like the original concept of America.Our

[fizzyland]

I apologize for my personally offensive comments. I know it reinforces your prejudices. I'm a liberal and a veteran and took parts of your post as an attack and reacted in a knee-jerk fashion

[jordan179]

I apologize for my personally offensive comments.

Thank you for being a decent person :)

[ihuitl]

So we use airstrikes of sorts to destroy their nuclear capabilities? I would be in agreement with that.

It has the added effect of having 'dinijad see his his little nuclear baby fall from his grasp, too. I say, let them live with this humiliation and loss of face, if possible. The only better thing we can do is drop pigs blood on them as well. Which I might also support (it worked with the Moro insurrection).