A Question That Must NEVER Be Asked if One Loves Peace!

[jordan179]

Ran into some people who are happy that we're pulling out of Iraq and wish that we'd pull out of Afghanistan, right now! When I asked them "What about the Taliban and Al Qaeda, wouldn't they just keep on attacking us like they did before 9-11?", it threw them into a ferment. I'd asked a question that no one is supposed to ask

Comments

[squid314]

I have a theory on this

[gothelittle]

This is true, and you've got a good theory there. However, it's at least partially inapplicable in this case, as the Iraqi/Afghanistan military actions are a drop in the bucket compared to our national debt.

The majority of our debt is welfare, Medicaid/Medicare, and unemployment benefit extensions.

The only other problem I see with your theory is that it neglects intent. On one side, you have accidental deaths as a result of attempting to help someone, with their consent. On the other side, you have deliberate murder, often premeditated. When you bring morality into the picture, the 'cost/benefit analysis' becomes far less useful.

In which case, yes, it's worth sacrificing scores of soldiers in order to teach the enemy that we won't stand for them targeting our innocent civilians.

[squid314]

I disagree with you about the relevance of a trillion dollars to the national debt, but I think there's an argument that can cut through the disagreement and prevent us having to compare budget pie charts: if our goal is to save lives, that trillion dollars could be spent in a much more effective way - for example, spending it on disease research would multiple the budget for that a hundredfold and save far more than a few dozen lives. Thus, the question isn't whether it's economically possible to spend that money, but rather whether spending it on war is worth the opportunity cost.

I also think I disagree with you about morality, pretty fundamentally, probably too fundamentally to address in a single LiveJournal comment. In short, I'm a utilitarian. I believe killing evil people feels good, but is not a moral necessity, and is certainly not more important than saving innocent lives. Intent matters not at all, and the innocent dead will not and should not forgive us just because our hearts were pure.

[gothelittle]

You're right, our worldviews are very different, and yours is internally logically sound. Thanks for hearing me out

[benschachar_77]

Typical sanctimonious anti-war crowd.

When they're not pretending the problem will just go away, they're reciting kos talking points about Evul Corporations and Imperialism OMGZ.

[cutelildrow]

^this

Maybe the barbarians sacking rome would have diappeared if the Romans ignored 'em too...

Oh wait...!

[kishiriadgr]

Considering that by the time Rome was sacked it wasn't even the capital of the empire...

[cutelildrow]

I'm sure it doesn't count at all, then!

But, if you saying that the barbarians are the least of the worries of the Citizenry, because the Republic is falling from within... *grin* I'll buy that.

[melvin_udall]

"kitten-goddess"

I know all I need to know.

[oronoda]

I love how a teacher doesn't really know the definition of imperialism and colonialism.

And you know, I wonder what he/she says to a student who raises such questions? Dismiss it as a stupid question? Wow, that's a great teacher right there. I weap for our education system.

[cutelildrow]

And any teacher who tries to teach otherwise gets run out of teaching.

There is a reason why I balk at the thought of trying to teach these days. Actively hostile to conservatist thoughts and values? Yes!

[headnoises]

Originally, that hostility is what had me thinking "home school" for my Kit (and future babies).

Two cases of openly *injecting* known sex offenders who target juveniles in the last six months gives me better ammo to sway folks that it's for Kit's own good. (Washington state USA-- first was a 19 year old rapist/ freshman high schooler, second was a middle school teacher in the sex offender registry for inappropriate touching of multiple students less than two years ago, now rehired as a middle school history teacher)

[kishiriadgr]

To answer your question, no.

Al-Qaeda at this point is pretty well toast. There are some individuals claiming to be Al-Qaeda, but as an overall organization they're pretty ephemeral at this point.

The Taliban have never attacked the United States. Newsflash: they aren't interested in attacking the United States. They attack US and coalition forces because they want us out of Afghanistan. Fullstop.

To my knowledge, no Iraqi has been involved in attacks on the United States. Saudis and Africans yes, but no Iraqis.

You can turn your straw man into a lovely scarecrow by dressing it up in your old worn suits, did you know that?

[gothelittle]

However, dressing your butler in a scarecrow suit doesn't turn him into a straw man.

I invite you to search out and read through the report on Iraq and the WMD. Parts of it are scratched out because they're classified. The left hailed it because it claimed there was no obvious smoking gun, and then buried it because it did make clear the fact that Hussein was interested in working with Al Qaeda and was trying to reach out to them.

[kishiriadgr]

Got any information that's less than eight years old? Because I do.

Jordan: good call on screening anonymous comments (I'm referring to one you haven't unscreened yet.) It's that cowardly little pussy who just yells Orwell and contributes nothing. In this case he's calling "doublespeak doublespeak doublespeak" which I don't think he understands the definition of.

[gothelittle]

Er... o.O

Yeah...

Seeing as the commission was set up six years ago and the report (unclassified version) released five years ago...