Indeed. Or near-suicide attacks. A simultaneous rising by a major Muslim cult would, of course, end in the capture or death of most of the cult, and its closing as an overt organization. But it could claim thousands of lives in the fighting, not even counting the worthless lives of its followers. Consider the New York City Draft Riots of 1863, which killed at least a thousand people (probably several times more), and did so in one city with 19th-century technology. Now imagine rioting on that scale in several major cities, simultaneously -- perhaps timed to coincide with a war (as was also the case in 1863).
Even without much in the way of WMD or suicide-bombing, the death toll could be terrible.
Obama as cipher ...btrippNovember 19 2008, 15:39:55 UTC
"actively inhibit criminal prosecutions and grant the gangs special priveleges "
The ONLY thing anybody from around here (Chicago) really knew about Obama going into this election (and that's counting his senate run!) was that he was a total flunky for the "Stroger Machine", the entrenched Black political cabal which runs the parts of Cook County not in the City of Chicago (and, de facto, some parts that are but are nearly 100% Black).
Obama's "job" as a State Senator was to cut off at the knees all "reform" efforts around here, ensuring the continuation of "sweetheart deals" that would put Blacks (oh, like Michelle Obama) on boards and in do-nothing "executive" positions with local companies. This used to be Jesse Jackson's hustle (maybe why he wants to cut off Obama's nuts) with Operation PUSH ... he'd go to local corporations and make it clear that he's paint them as OMG! RACIST!!1! and organize big media-circus Black boycotts if they didn't make SUBSTANTIAL donations to PUSH and put Jackson's cronies into lucrative gigs. It
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Re: Obama as cipher ...jordan179November 19 2008, 16:13:11 UTC
In places like Chicago, it's awfully hard to tell who are the criminals and who are the politicians!
Chicago is one of the most corrupt cities in the country, and one of the big aspects of Obama deliberately unexamined by the MSM has been his ties to that corruption. As President, all this is going to come out, and severely tarnish his image. The bigger question is the extent to which he is going to admit his Chicago cronies to positions of national power.
Re: Obama as cipher ...jim_laneNovember 20 2008, 02:43:38 UTC
Who's going to "bring it all out"? The media?!?! Yeah, right. They're fully "in the pocket" of the Left, and even Fox News has shown its filthy feet of clay. Bloggers? They can try...but they'll soon discover just how effective a state police force (HomeyLand InSecurity, or the O-man's soon-to-be 21st century Gestapo) can be when it's not constrained by the US Constitution---which it won't be. One of our LJ friends (who's one of my personal ones, too) already discovered the cold, brutal (and no doubt illegal) force of the DNC before the election, and I worry for his and his wife's safety now that the O-man is headed for the Power Chair. The Left cares not one whit for our Constitution. They'd just as soon use it to wipe their butts...
Re: Obama as cipher ...jordan179November 20 2008, 04:33:46 UTC
Too many bloggers, too many friends and family of bloggers, too firmly-fixed a tradition of liberty. If Obama tries to do what you say, he will succeed in many individual cases, but build up hatred against himself and against the Democratic Party that will far surpass Bush Derangement Syndrome. In 2010 and 2012, this will cost the Democrats first the Congress and then the Presidency.
having been in an actual cult, and still participating on a limited basis(ISKCON), anytime you have people willing to give up the ability to think, you have a disaster. i think too much unfortunately :D
The scary thing is how many people were willing to believe Einhorn's absurd claims of a CIA assassination just to make him look bad, and ignore all the evidence pointing to him as the killer. This apparently included the French government, for years.
I find the extreme worry about radical muslims vaguely familiar, as I recall many "radical" (read that different) unorthodox churches (frequently called cults by the orthodox) were looked at similarly. These include the early Mormons and the Oneida colony, among others.
While there might be actions taken, the threat is being blown out of proportion, and I very much doubt they'll be able to lay claim to the power Jones had. Jones worked within the system; I seriously doubt that "outsiders" (non-Christians) will be able to get a foot in the door, no matter with whom they're associated.
This in no way denies they might have dangerous weapons, but I doubt there will be any sort of "Let's talk this over" nonsense. This country is still very intolerant of what's not in the Bible, or outright "blasphemy."
The Muslim Menacejordan179November 19 2008, 22:04:31 UTC
I am not particularly worried that radical Muslims will be able to take over America, in a Prayer for the Assassin sort of scenario. The reason why I'm not worried about this is not because I think that they don't want to take over, and not just because I believe in the strength of Christianity in America.
The reason why the radical Muslims won't be able to take over is simple. Their goals are too hostile to too many other groups, including other "outsider" groups (such as atheists, homosexuals and Jews), for the Prayer for the Assassin scenario to work. As radical Muslims get stronger within their neighborhoods, the offense they cause other Americans by their behavior increases, and countervailing forces come into play.
Having said that, I think you're underestimating the threat. The Mormons and the various other heretical Christian sects in American history lacked the connections to hostile nations that is possessed by the radical Muslims (*) Furthermore, none of the other sects, not even the radical Mormons, believed that
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Re: The Muslim MenaceghostwolfNovember 20 2008, 22:28:31 UTC
I don't dispute any of your points, but I still believe the threat is being over-blown, much like the "Threat Level" we keep seeing, which has - to my recollection - never been below yellow.
It reminds me of the boy crying "Wolf!" too often.
Re: The Muslim Menacejordan179November 21 2008, 08:14:24 UTC
First of all, we have been under constant threat of terrorist attack since 9-11. It's just that we've also been actively parrying the threats.
If we stop parrying them, you'll see the threat turn into genuine attacks, pretty fast.
Secondly, I don't think the threat of homegrown Islamic terrorism is being overblown. I don't think it's being taken seriously enough. Note that the NOI and Jamaat ut-Fuqra compounds are still very much in business, in America. I personally expected them to have been shut down by now, and most of their occupants immured safely in prisons.
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Even without much in the way of WMD or suicide-bombing, the death toll could be terrible.
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Winter would be especially dangerous-- who looks twice at someone with a big bag and a huge, fluffy coat?
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The ONLY thing anybody from around here (Chicago) really knew about Obama going into this election (and that's counting his senate run!) was that he was a total flunky for the "Stroger Machine", the entrenched Black political cabal which runs the parts of Cook County not in the City of Chicago (and, de facto, some parts that are but are nearly 100% Black).
Obama's "job" as a State Senator was to cut off at the knees all "reform" efforts around here, ensuring the continuation of "sweetheart deals" that would put Blacks (oh, like Michelle Obama) on boards and in do-nothing "executive" positions with local companies. This used to be Jesse Jackson's hustle (maybe why he wants to cut off Obama's nuts) with Operation PUSH ... he'd go to local corporations and make it clear that he's paint them as OMG! RACIST!!1! and organize big media-circus Black boycotts if they didn't make SUBSTANTIAL donations to PUSH and put Jackson's cronies into lucrative gigs. It ( ... )
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Chicago is one of the most corrupt cities in the country, and one of the big aspects of Obama deliberately unexamined by the MSM has been his ties to that corruption. As President, all this is going to come out, and severely tarnish his image. The bigger question is the extent to which he is going to admit his Chicago cronies to positions of national power.
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While there might be actions taken, the threat is being blown out of proportion, and I very much doubt they'll be able to lay claim to the power Jones had. Jones worked within the system; I seriously doubt that "outsiders" (non-Christians) will be able to get a foot in the door, no matter with whom they're associated.
This in no way denies they might have dangerous weapons, but I doubt there will be any sort of "Let's talk this over" nonsense. This country is still very intolerant of what's not in the Bible, or outright "blasphemy."
Reply
The reason why the radical Muslims won't be able to take over is simple. Their goals are too hostile to too many other groups, including other "outsider" groups (such as atheists, homosexuals and Jews), for the Prayer for the Assassin scenario to work. As radical Muslims get stronger within their neighborhoods, the offense they cause other Americans by their behavior increases, and countervailing forces come into play.
Having said that, I think you're underestimating the threat. The Mormons and the various other heretical Christian sects in American history lacked the connections to hostile nations that is possessed by the radical Muslims (*) Furthermore, none of the other sects, not even the radical Mormons, believed that ( ... )
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It reminds me of the boy crying "Wolf!" too often.
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If we stop parrying them, you'll see the threat turn into genuine attacks, pretty fast.
Secondly, I don't think the threat of homegrown Islamic terrorism is being overblown. I don't think it's being taken seriously enough. Note that the NOI and Jamaat ut-Fuqra compounds are still very much in business, in America. I personally expected them to have been shut down by now, and most of their occupants immured safely in prisons.
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