The Muslim Menacejordan179November 19 2008, 22:04:31 UTC
I am not particularly worried that radical Muslims will be able to take over America, in a Prayer for the Assassin sort of scenario. The reason why I'm not worried about this is not because I think that they don't want to take over, and not just because I believe in the strength of Christianity in America.
The reason why the radical Muslims won't be able to take over is simple. Their goals are too hostile to too many other groups, including other "outsider" groups (such as atheists, homosexuals and Jews), for the Prayer for the Assassin scenario to work. As radical Muslims get stronger within their neighborhoods, the offense they cause other Americans by their behavior increases, and countervailing forces come into play.
Having said that, I think you're underestimating the threat. The Mormons and the various other heretical Christian sects in American history lacked the connections to hostile nations that is possessed by the radical Muslims (*) Furthermore, none of the other sects, not even the radical Mormons, believed that they would by right and by force take over and rule the adherents of all other faiths, everywhere. It is the international scope and universal ambitions of Islam that make it a long-term danger.
Finally, the radical Muslims combine this scope and these ambitions with a literally-suicidal approach to conflict. If it suits the ends of their masters, foreign or domestic, armed radical Muslims will enthusiastically throw themselves into a fight, even a fight that rationality would show them to be hopeless.
I really believe, for instance, that if Louis Farrakhan declared that The Day had come, a good percentage of the Fruit of Islam really would pick up those arms they've been stockpiling and launch armed attempts to take over their neighborhoods and cities, even though any sober appreciation of the military situation would show them that there was no chance of this accomplishing anything save the destruction of their own cult. It is the (dubious) sanity of the leaders, not of the followers, which restrains Muslim cults from resorting to extreme and open violence.
You're quite right that there wouldn't be
any sort of "Let's talk this over" nonsense.
such as we've seen in Europe. Or rather, there wouldn't be as much of it -- in a situation in which Muslim rape gangs were rampaging through major American cities, or (worse) a campaign of neighborhood ethnic cleansing had begun, the populace would reject conciliation in favor of "law and order" candidates and policies. Americans are tougher, in their cultural fiber, than are Europeans.
However the Muslim cultists could do a lot of damage, if allowed to operate unchecked before large-scale open violence erupted. Among the things that are almost certainly in the basements of the NOI mosques, the Jamaat ul-Fuqra compounds, or dens like the Masjid al-Taqwa in Brooklyn, are stockpiles of at least light military weapons (automatic rifles, grenades etc.); and they might be stockpiling heavier stuff. Mortars, rocket-launchers, or even NBC labs -- who knows?
If a major cult like the Nation of Islam chose to launch a rampage from all its mosques simultaneously, the result would be at least a short-term military crisis -- they are almost certainly heavily armed enough that even a major urban police force would have to work hard to contain them. It might be necessary to call upon regular military forces. If the NOI coordinated this with acts by their Terrorist State backers, perhaps in the middle of a war with said backers, this could create problems on the battlefield.
Remember, this was exactly the context of the New York City Draft Riots, which claimed at least a thousand (probably several times that many) lives -- in one city, using mid-19th century military technology. It could be far worse, if it happened in several cities, today.
=== (*) These connections are also a weakness, of course, since it taints them as "un-American."
Re: The Muslim MenaceghostwolfNovember 20 2008, 22:28:31 UTC
I don't dispute any of your points, but I still believe the threat is being over-blown, much like the "Threat Level" we keep seeing, which has - to my recollection - never been below yellow.
It reminds me of the boy crying "Wolf!" too often.
Re: The Muslim Menacejordan179November 21 2008, 08:14:24 UTC
First of all, we have been under constant threat of terrorist attack since 9-11. It's just that we've also been actively parrying the threats.
If we stop parrying them, you'll see the threat turn into genuine attacks, pretty fast.
Secondly, I don't think the threat of homegrown Islamic terrorism is being overblown. I don't think it's being taken seriously enough. Note that the NOI and Jamaat ut-Fuqra compounds are still very much in business, in America. I personally expected them to have been shut down by now, and most of their occupants immured safely in prisons.
The reason why the radical Muslims won't be able to take over is simple. Their goals are too hostile to too many other groups, including other "outsider" groups (such as atheists, homosexuals and Jews), for the Prayer for the Assassin scenario to work. As radical Muslims get stronger within their neighborhoods, the offense they cause other Americans by their behavior increases, and countervailing forces come into play.
Having said that, I think you're underestimating the threat. The Mormons and the various other heretical Christian sects in American history lacked the connections to hostile nations that is possessed by the radical Muslims (*) Furthermore, none of the other sects, not even the radical Mormons, believed that they would by right and by force take over and rule the adherents of all other faiths, everywhere. It is the international scope and universal ambitions of Islam that make it a long-term danger.
Finally, the radical Muslims combine this scope and these ambitions with a literally-suicidal approach to conflict. If it suits the ends of their masters, foreign or domestic, armed radical Muslims will enthusiastically throw themselves into a fight, even a fight that rationality would show them to be hopeless.
I really believe, for instance, that if Louis Farrakhan declared that The Day had come, a good percentage of the Fruit of Islam really would pick up those arms they've been stockpiling and launch armed attempts to take over their neighborhoods and cities, even though any sober appreciation of the military situation would show them that there was no chance of this accomplishing anything save the destruction of their own cult. It is the (dubious) sanity of the leaders, not of the followers, which restrains Muslim cults from resorting to extreme and open violence.
You're quite right that there wouldn't be
any sort of "Let's talk this over" nonsense.
such as we've seen in Europe. Or rather, there wouldn't be as much of it -- in a situation in which Muslim rape gangs were rampaging through major American cities, or (worse) a campaign of neighborhood ethnic cleansing had begun, the populace would reject conciliation in favor of "law and order" candidates and policies. Americans are tougher, in their cultural fiber, than are Europeans.
However the Muslim cultists could do a lot of damage, if allowed to operate unchecked before large-scale open violence erupted. Among the things that are almost certainly in the basements of the NOI mosques, the Jamaat ul-Fuqra compounds, or dens like the Masjid al-Taqwa in Brooklyn, are stockpiles of at least light military weapons (automatic rifles, grenades etc.); and they might be stockpiling heavier stuff. Mortars, rocket-launchers, or even NBC labs -- who knows?
If a major cult like the Nation of Islam chose to launch a rampage from all its mosques simultaneously, the result would be at least a short-term military crisis -- they are almost certainly heavily armed enough that even a major urban police force would have to work hard to contain them. It might be necessary to call upon regular military forces. If the NOI coordinated this with acts by their Terrorist State backers, perhaps in the middle of a war with said backers, this could create problems on the battlefield.
Remember, this was exactly the context of the New York City Draft Riots, which claimed at least a thousand (probably several times that many) lives -- in one city, using mid-19th century military technology. It could be far worse, if it happened in several cities, today.
===
(*) These connections are also a weakness, of course, since it taints them as "un-American."
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It reminds me of the boy crying "Wolf!" too often.
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If we stop parrying them, you'll see the threat turn into genuine attacks, pretty fast.
Secondly, I don't think the threat of homegrown Islamic terrorism is being overblown. I don't think it's being taken seriously enough. Note that the NOI and Jamaat ut-Fuqra compounds are still very much in business, in America. I personally expected them to have been shut down by now, and most of their occupants immured safely in prisons.
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