some thoughts about fees and such.

[jonathankaplan]

In this thread (the relevant subthread starting about halfway down),
andybloch said (in part) the following:

...However, let's keep this all in perspective. There is cheating in poker, but how much does this cost a good player? In the WSOP final, the players put up $56,190,000, but there was only $52,818,610 in prize money. The house took $3,371,400 for

Comments

[fun160]

The players in the WSOP (entertainers, if you will) must PAY to provide the promoters with product they can then sell? It is crazy. TV has changed the old dynamic and the players (generally) are slow to realize their value in specific venues.It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens when Harrah's negotiates the next WSOP television contract. ESPN owns the rights through 2007 and with the ratings poker is getting I have to believe the next contract will command some significant dollars. Let's hope some of these TV bucks trickle down to the players and not just in the form of endorsements. If nothing else television should cover the expenses televised events, making for at least a 100% payout

[adb_jaeger]

(a) "Let's hope some of these TV bucks trickle down to the players and not just in the form of endorsements."

followed by

(b) "No way can you get every player (or even a majority of players) to boycott a big, televised event, especially one for a WSOP bracelet."

Considering statement (b), and considering ESPN is in this thing to make money, I can't see any way statement (a) ever becomes true.

[fun160]

I don't think it's asking too much for the payout in televised events to be 100%, with TV covering the expenses of running the tournament. That's all I was talking about when I said, "Let's hope some of these TV bucks trickle down to the players and not just in the form of endorsements." If the payout is greater than 100%, so much the better.

BTW, I like how they fiddled with the payout structure so that everyone who made the WSOP main event final table had a seven-figure payday. Got to think the ESPN marketing boys were involved in that one.

I know it's a bit of a threadjack, but . . .

[howardtreesong]

As I recall it, there was something like a $400K delta between tenth and ninth, followed by 150K deltas between ninth and fifth. That made no sense at all, except from a marketing perspective. And I admit, the "we're making everyone at the final table a millionaire" isn't a bad strategy.

I have no clue as to how to actually quantify cheating impact, but I agree with JK's point that cheating cost differs from vigorish both on visibility grounds and moral grounds.

[herooftheage]

The "cost" of cheating is borne silently, quietly, without knowledge of the depth or extent of the amount paid. The cheating costs are never known and those involved want to keep it that way.

Shouldn't you be able to a black-box analysis of the system to get a pretty decent estimate on how much cheating effects the game? You might not get an exact number, but you'd get a decently close one. I think.

I'd also think the size of the player pool is getting large enough that this might be a case of "the market getting it right" - i.e. that the level of cheating is still worth the candle. Any reason to think they're wrong about that?

[jonathankaplan]

Shouldn't you be able to a black-box analysis of the system to get a pretty decent estimate on how much cheating effects the game? You might not get an exact number, but you'd get a decently close one. I think....

There are too many unknowns, I think. We don't know how many people are cheaters, nor how many would cheat if given the opportunity. We don't know how many opportunities really exists, or how much each of those opportunities is worth.

...I'd also think the size of the player pool is getting large enough that this might be a case of "the market getting it right" - i.e. that the level of cheating is still worth the candle. Any reason to think they're wrong about that?

I would say the market is getting it right...but I've never heard the phrase "...still worth the candle."...grin

[herooftheage]

but I've never heard the phrase "...still worth the candle."...grin

Usually the form has been "the game is not worth the candle", but in recent years, I've heard this version more and more.

http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/gameisnotwor.html