In Stunning 2D! [probable SPOILERS for NuWho episode "Flatline"]

[jjpor]

Is it just me being a curmudgeon, or is it a bit early to be crowning Jamie Mathieson showrunner-in-waiting just because he wrote two good scripts in a row? Are people that eager to be rid of Moffat? (And before you scoff at my naivety, I do glance at Tumblr from time to time nowadays and know that yes, yes quite a lot of them are

Comments

[shannonsequitur]

[jjpor]

It's not really specifically Tumblr (although the Moffat-hatred over there is strong, to be sure), but Mathieson as the saviour of Who is something I've seen in more than one place over the past couple of days. And, while I admit those were both superior Doctor Who stories, it just seems a bit sudden and strange to me.

Then again, I should have stopped being surprised by stuff on the internet quite some time ago, I suppose. ;)

[shannonsequitur]

[jjpor]

So, some good came of it all in the end. ;)

[dbskyler]

I've seen some of the Moffat hate / Mathieson love too, and I agree that it's weird. The only thing I can come up with is that Mathieson's scripts are strong in the areas where Moffat's scripts are weak, at least in the perception of a certain segment of fandom? It's especially weird to me because, to be honest, I haven't been particularly enjoying Series 8 overall, although there have been good moments, and some good episodes. And, I would rate "Flatline" as being among the good episodes. But I don't see the difference between it and the "bad" episodes that others seem to be jumping on. Well, obviously, I do see a difference -- I mean, I liked one and didn't like some others -- but I don't see the difference as arising from some fundamental consequence of Mathieson vs. Moffat. Instead, I see it as weaker script vs. stronger script, period. It just means that I don't like all of Moffat's writing, but that doesn't change the fact that I also love some of it. The same was true for me with RTD, and with every other Doctor Who

[jjpor]

I think that's probably a fair assessment - having built up this unrealistic demonised image of Moffat (not that I think the bloke doesn't have faults or issues, but he's only a writer/producer on a TV show, not the Master or anything), they have to build up an unrealistic lionised image of someone they consider the anti-Moffat? Ah, fandom, you never disappoint... ;D

The hilarious double standard you point out there, btw, blaming Moffat personally for all of the things they don't like about the series while denying him the credit for anything they do like, seems to be a very common one, and not only when it comes to Moffat, and not only among Doctor Who fans.

I think this is the key point, and one I agree with wholeheartedly:

Well, obviously, I do see a difference -- I mean, I liked one and didn't like some others -- but I don't see the difference as arising from some fundamental consequence of Mathieson vs. Moffat. Instead, I see it as weaker script vs. stronger script, period. It just means that I don't like all of Moffat's

[gonzo21]

Way too early for people to be calling for the new guy to be show-runner. Running a show and writing well are two completely distinct skillsets.

And frankly the whole idea of the celebrity Who show-runner is something that needs put to death soon. Just get some competent producers in and let them do what producers are supposed to do. And let the writers do what they're supposed to do.

Moffat does need to go though.

[jjpor]

Way too early for people to be calling for the new guy to be show-runner. Running a show and writing well are two completely distinct skillsets.

That's what I thought, really. Although if he does this French show for a while, maybe he'll have the experience to do a good job on Who. Not that I expect this to be a thing for very long - Moffat sort of built his reputation with fandom over a couple of seasons or so before anybody was calling for him to succeed RTD.

I guess it's just the way TV is nowadays - all of the prestige projects seem to be the personal vision of some creative type with wide-ranging control over the direction of the production. I think it's probably an extension of the way directors became the main figures in cinema when at one time producers and studio heads enjoyed more kudos for their parts in filmmaking. I agree, though, that it's not always a positive thing.

[gonzo21]

I can't think of any other program on British tv that has a celebrity show-runner like Doctor who has?

[jjpor]

I do think it's primarily an American thing, now that you mention it. But then, Who and Sherlock are probably the closest thing British TV has compared to the prestige American TV series (not making a judgment on quality, just on the position they occupy in the culture), and there's Moffat self-aggrandising with the best of them.

[clocketpatch]

Is it just me being a curmudgeon, or is it a bit early to be crowning Jamie Mathieson showrunner-in-waiting just because he wrote two good scripts in a row?

This made me giggle, because isn't this just exactly how people reacted with Moffat back in the day? I do think that both were very good episodes and would be happy to see Mr. Mathieson come back. Show writer? I don't know about that, but if they're looking, I think they could do worse.

whereas these days I increasingly regard it as some sort of grievously unsung City of Death of NuWho.That's because it is. I honestly think TU&TW is one of the best NuWho scripts written, but I do have a soft spot for the comedic ones

[jjpor]

The parallels are spooky, aren't they? And of course, within months or weeks or days of getting the job, Mathieson would have the same sort of "hatedom" amongst online fans that Moffat has. ;)

When, oh when, will TU&TW (great acronym, btw!) get the recognition it deserves? When??

I did like Flatline, and the Mummy one too (even if it has Jossed the fic I never got around to writing about Eleven, Amy and Rory actually responding to that phone call at the end of The Big Bang). I'm just not sure they were that much better than other stories generally acknowledged as good of the past couple of series, really.

"Has this writer come up with a version of Fear Her that JJPOR will be forced to admit he likes?"

Curses! I walked right into their trap too... ;D

[ravenskyewalker]

Agreed, it's weird, but I saw it on Tumblr, so that speaks for itself. *grin

[jjpor]

Agreed, it's weird, but I saw it on Tumblr, so that speaks for itself. *grin*

Well, yeah. Although I've seen it in a couple of other places too. Probably exaggerating to call it a meme, but it seemed to do the usual rounds for a day or so.

I sympathise - and I know what you mean about wanting to avoid whole chunks of fandom these days. I think some people are just looking for stuff to rail against rather than having a good reason for their criticisms (obviously this doesn't apply to all criticisms), while others seem to view criticism as some form of disloyalty. Either way I don't want to be part of it. As you probably noticed, I was a huge fan of Eleven and his era, so I don't really see this as a new dawn or anything, but I have nothing but admiration for Capaldi and I already think Twelve and Clara are one of the great Doctor-companion teams. So I'm generally quite happy, really. I just felt the need to respond to something that made me scratch my head a bit. :)

[jjpor]

And why did that comment come out in all italics??!