Moon v. Wiscon Follow-up

[jimhines]

I’m still sorting through my feelings on Wiscon rescinding Elizabeth Moon’s Guest of Honor invitation.

It’s not the first time something like this has happened.  William Sanders’ GoH invitation to ICFA in 2008 was rescinded after his “sheet head” rejection letter, for example.  (Thanks to Nick Mamatas for that historical pointer.)

Basically, I

Comments

[yendi]

That article, incidentally, was written by her fellow Texan sci-fi writer Lou Antonelli, who makes it clear in his blog that he's A) writing the story to help her (not report on the larger situation), and B) doesn't quite understand the term "free speech:"
http://louantonelli.blogspot.com/2010/10/free-speech-pfui.html

[jimhines]

I know -- it struck me more as a blog post in support of a buddy than something I would expect to find in a newspaper...

[sinboy]

I think you might have higher standards for newspapers than they live up to these days. Plus, there are plenty of newspapers which happily print not just support of people who write bigoted things about Muslims, but go several steps further and whip up hardcore anti-Muslim hysteria.

[jimhines]

Wouldn't surprise me. To be honest, I can't remember the last time I even read a newspaper...

[jakobdrud]

I've been baffled about the severity and anger in the comments about Moon's post as well. I didn't particularly agree with her blog post, but then again, I don't expect to agree with everything that's being said on the net. Obviously, some people expected to do just that, and... well I guess 'the spur of the moment' added momentum to the who ruckus.

In a case like this it's so nice to read your moderate and politely phrased contributions to the debate - I hope the world hears you.

[jimhines]

Oh, I can understand the anger. Not first-hand, but her post did piss me off. I also read some very powerful posts which drove home how hurtful some of her claims and remarks were.

I don't think that makes her the devil, and there are other things she's written that I agree with and support. But I definitely think she screwed up this time.

[jakobdrud]

Re: anger. I just had a scary insight: That I may have been become immune to some of the worst rhetoric concerning muslims. E.g. the right-wing party here in Denmark just announced that they want to fight a cultural fight against Islam--not just islamists, but the whole religion. I know they're out of their minds, of course, but sadly they set the bar for the tone of the debate here. And the Prime Minister just refused them in vague terms because he needs their votes... sigh.

So I guess I just didn't find Moon's post so far out there because I've heard MUCH worse. I shall have to meditate on the verbal conditioning I've let myself been subjected to.

Still, I think we agree that anger is not an excuse to abandon civilized dialogue, and there my hat's off to you.

[jimhines]

Thanks. And that's a good point, both that there's much, much worse out there, and that the existence of the worse doesn't mean giving the "not as bad" a free ride.

Moon has said a lot of things I agree with and respect. I don't believe she hates Muslims. But I do think this particular post exposed some prejudices and bigotry that should be challenged.

[brainstormfront]

As always, your posts/thoughts are measured and well-thought-out. Far better than I do when I posted regularly (but hope to restart next year

[jimhines]

Part of my qusetion is whether those dialogues/discussions really would have happened. I know a number of people were planning to walk out of Moon's GoH speech in protest. I haven't seen anything from Moon to suggest she was all that interested in dialogue/discussion. And there's the question of whether the people attending the con are obligated to have this particular conversation...

I know what you mean about separating work from author, and I think that's become a harder question these days, with so many authors being more public online. I still feel conflicted over how much I love Ender's Game :-P

[serialbabbler]

Best way to avoid feeling conflicted is to stop reading blogs. ;)

(I liked Ender's Game, too... And Speaker for the Dead. Most of the rest of his books I could happily live without, though. Heh.)

[dulcinbradbury]

I still feel conflicted over how much I love Ender's Game

I love Ender's Game too. I'll look for used copies rather than support Card. I suppose if I NEEDED a copy and couldn't find one used... I'd... donate at least as much to a GLBTQ group or something.

[tammy_moore]

I think it would have been a very bad move for WISCON to let the invitation to Moon stand. Selecting someone as a guest of honour means, to me, that the person is an exemplar of the organisations philosophy. The platonic ideal of their mission statement. For FantasyCon all that means is that they write fantasy and make nerds like me happy. WISCON, however, has positioned itself as a political and socio-economic convention and must bear that in mind when inviting guests.

In Moon's case that meant that by continuing to have her as GOH they were aligning their beliefs with hers - and they were not very nice. Moon not going to the convention changes nothing for the demographic she represents - fans will be disappointed but there will be other white authors of kick-ass female characters there. Moon staying as GOH would make WISCON a hostile place to POC and that isn't right.

(I don't hate Elizabeth Moon. I don't know her, but I do like her books. However, I think what she said was bad and that she has to deal with the fall-out of that.)

[jimhines]

I read a comment (in a private group, so I won't link) saying Moon was a bad match for Wiscon from the start, which is something I've been thinking about a lot. I'm not sure if the speaker was referring to her military experience, which I don't think disqualifies her in any way from being honored as a feminist SF author. But folks have pointed out that her political views on Islam aren't exactly new. It makes me wonder if this is something that should have been caught/vetted back when they were first deciding on guests of honor for the con.

Not sure where I'm going with this. Just one more thing that's been rattling around inside my skull.

[pantryslut]

FWIW, guests of honor for WisCon are nominated by anyone who wants to nominate someone, and voted on by concom members (of which there are forty-odd eligible folks). Vetting GOHs happens on individual voters' discretion, at least up until now. I was not on the concom this year (or last) and thus both ineligible to vote and unaware of any internal workings, but I think this is at least partly a case of "never been a problem* before..."

*(much of a? certainly not on this scale!)

[jimhines]

I didn't know that - thanks!

[cathschaffstump]

I think Ahmed's post about how Moon's rhetoric about Islam has become centerist is spot on. Moon probably hasn't thought about her remarks. She's eaten what the media has fed her whole-heartedly. That doesn't justify her remarks at all.

You have probably seen my post on the subject, as well as Timmi's discussion on how the center has moved to the right. If you haven't, you know where to look.

For my own part, I could never look my predominately Islamic student population in the ESL program at Kirkwood squarely in the eye again, if I did not support Wiscon's move, which I am pleased that they made. Now I don't have to save room in the car for protest signs.

You should go to Wiscon, Jim. You'd feel very comfortable there.

Catherine

[jimhines]

I've seen your posts, but I'm not sure about Timmi's. (I might have, and just might not be remembering/recognizing the name.)

I was thinking about doing Wiscon this year, even before this mess broke out. It's going to depend on time and budget, as usual, but we'll see...

[cathschaffstump]

Timmi DuChamp, smartest feminist SF writer in the world, wrote this before the invitation was rescinded:

http://aqueductpress.blogspot.com/2010/09/politics-of-discourse-feminist-and.html

Let me know if you come to Wiscon. I won't liaison for you (totally your loss), but I will be happy to introduce you to some very cool people who go there regularly. You also know some very cool people who already go, like Nnedi (so cool she gets one name, like Cher) and Pat Rothfuss.

I mean, writing, feminism, academics, a safe space, and karaoke. Dude. It's like my dream con. The only time I missed it was when I was in Russia.

[michaeldthomas]

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

:-D

I think you would have a good time.