(Untitled)

[jbmcdragon]

(Cross posted to the Femmemobile! and jennabreen)

So, I was reading this sci fi novel -- a really good sci fi novel, that except for this bit I'd rec to anyone. Even on a social level I loved it -- the level of racism, sexism, etc. There are a few minor things that I never would have noticed if I hadn't been so involved in these things lately, but even then

Comments

[doqz]

I think you are in danger of generalizing what Stirling contextualized as an individual-specific reaction. Look at Pam's warning again, frex, - it reads to me as a warning about Mike's personality/headspace, specifically not representative of the male gender as a whole.

[trishalynn]

In that specific book, yes. But this is representative of a scene I've seen played out in many romance novels where the male hero is brought to the edge of arousal and when thwarted, goes and punches a wall or something to work it off. I'm also reminded of a scene in Twilight the movie where Edward has just finished rescuing Bella and his bloodlust is up, and he says something like, "Say something else to distract me!" As if he is helpless to his demons (which being a vampire, he kinda is).

[jbmcdragon]

No, I got that, but that wasn't my point. My point is what Trisha pointed out; that it isn't about this one scene in this one book, but rather that this reaction is the norm in a fictional sex situation in our society; if the woman says no, the guy is expected to react as if that's a terrible, terrible problem. (And fiction leads into reality, which is a major problem.)

Though, in this bit specifically, I thought Pam's warning was a bit odd. Mike wasn't the stereotypical ex-Marine character, and I wouldn't actually have expected this from what I'd seen of him. :(

J

[jbmcdragon]

OH PLEASE DO. :D

J

[hiddenfacade]

This sorta came up in Supernatural (a t.v show). In this particular episode they were making fun of Twilight/Vampire tropes. Anyway, so in one scene the main characters picks up a vampire book. On the cover is a sleeping women and in the shadows watching her is the vampire. The character holding the book shows the other character and says, "How is that not rape-y?"

[jbmcdragon]

I saw that! I wanted to hug the actors, writers, directors, and everyone else involved! That one line totally made me a fan all over again, when my glee for the show was waning!

J

[sunbleached44]

Now I reallly want to read that book! Not because of the weird almost sex scene, but because of the review you gave it to start out with...just wanted to clarify :)

[jbmcdragon]

Ha ha! It's your book, too; I swiped it off your shelves! It's really good. I'll be done with it soon. ;)

J

[sunbleached44]

Lol! Guess i should read the books that i buy!

[drabheathen]

This is funny, because it speaks to something that I (as a straight chick) have encountered, with some confusion at first.

I remember not understanding how it could feel difficult to stop - or why, say, it might be fine for a guy to make out slowly and lazily for an hour, but if I stepped up the pace and it got hot'n'heavy, he wouldn't (a) be able to sustain doing only that without doing something else, or (b) be able to take it lightly if we stopped. I didn't get it.

Luckily for me, I feel like I learned how to say no (without guilt) before I was in a lot of situations where I had to do so. So for me, saying no isn't the problem, or feeling bad about it. But recently, I feel like I've gained a little bit of sympathy for the guys' position, especially if all of their desire gets amped up at the same time and then denied.

I mean, I'm not advocating "taking one for the team" in ANY way. But during the times of my life when my libido is going crazy (most of the time it stays firmly in check), being denied sex would be so physically

[jbmcdragon]

I think you make some very good points, but the thing I'm having a problem with is this:
"I am going to keep in mind that it's more painful/difficult for him to pull a 180 than it is for me."

See, I don't think it actually is more difficult for a guy to stop; we've just been told over and over (as in the scenes I talked about above) that it is, and so we believe it and let them get away with shit. Suddenly they're excused because it's so hard for them. You said it right -- it's hard for us, too! We all have sex drives and libidos! And yet, we're told that men just "can't" stop. Talk about encouraging rape culture. :(

J

[drabheathen]

I'm not saying it's "too" difficult for guys to actually stop themselves (at least, not mature guys) - like they're runaway trains or something. But I do think that the stronger the libido, the more wrenching and all-consuming the sensation of sexual frustration. (The great hetero romantic myth - that he wants you SO BAD, but he won't cave in to his most primal, predatory impulses - is why Twilight happened. In the same way, we implicitly accept rape culture as normal, and feel flattered when he makes an EXCEPTION because he LOVES US so much.) And I think each partner should take responsibility for their own safety and sanity first, for sure.

But I think that's something that, if not kowtowed to, should be taken into account - a sort of physics of the halflife of sexual momentum. I mean, some guys don't have raging libidos. Some girls do. Hopefully, a couple will be sexually compatible in terms of libido, and both parties open to communication. If someone consistently ignores the other person's libido because they have veto power (

didn't finish my last sentence

[drabheathen]

... sexual frustration prevails!