you spoil everything you make me want to love

[ivy_chan]

Is dislike of an author's opinions a good reason to dislike their work, if their work reflects them? I've been reading a webcomic recently that I thought was good, except for the treatment of a particular character.

He's been shown in a mentor-student relationship with one of the main characters, who has, admittedly, lived a hard life. However,

Comments

[ivy_chan]

Exactly! I admit that women are built in a less muscular way, but women aren't inherently weak. There are so many badass women out there who can kick so many levels of butt! And that's also the chauvinistic idea of physical strength being the superior strength, disregarding emotional and mental strength. Hearing Kishimoto talk about women makes it really obvious why his female characters get so little action and so little page time. I like his world building, and all his female characters are actually really awesome. Just...he never gives them attention.

[redbrunja]

I have the exact same thing - if I find out that an author believes something I don't (on a subject I consider important, not like, they like orange) I totally taints their work for me. Same with actors. It's one reason I often don't like to read interviews with actors in case I realize I don't like them and have their work tainted further for me.

Considering the manga he writes, I am totally unsurprised about Kishimoto's rampant sexism. What an ass. No wonder both Lee and Sakura end up getting shafted by the narrative.

And I get the feeling he actually has no idea of the character he actually wrote with regards to Konan.

[ivy_chan]

It really does ruin it for me, and this is why I don't typically read what manga authors say, especially. With all the rageful gender issues in Japan, I'm terrified of what the author will say regarding a relationship I already find a little iffy. Sometimes pieces of a work seem so separate from the author themselves. Like, Tsunade seems like a character that wouldn't come out of Kishimoto's head, with his thoughts on women and sexism.

Konan doesn't seem anything like what Kishimoto describes her as. I don't think he knows what to do in regard to her character- she's one of the worst-handled female characters he has. We see very little of her, and when we do, she says something about Pain and falls silent, or tells Pain not to push himself and gets ignored. After a while, it's like she's there for ornamentation. It's infuriating, especially because her paper jutsu is one of my favorites in all of Kishimoto's ninjutsu techniques.

[redbrunja]

Yeah.. could you imagine if a mangaka I respected pulled that kind of crap? It would ruin a series for me.

And what's really frustrating is the part where it's like he doesn't even read his own manga - Tsunade doesn't sound like the kind of character he'd write, and Konan (while horribly mishandled) isn't sexualized in the least. It's really hard to say someone's a vampy evil bitch when, you know, she'd never shown as being sexual in the least and is constantly drawn in a burka-like coat.

[ivy_chan]

Yes, reading that was just so...discordant for me after I'd drawn up my own ideas of the character's personality. I'm writing that Konan fanfic, so I tracked down all her scenes and read into them, and was looking for articles/essays about her that might help, and there I saw Kishimoto's drawing of her in a skimpy top, and he calls her 'obscene'.

After I'd already drawn up this idea of her being quiet, subtle, intelligent, and an intense personality who just doesn't think about sex or being sexy all that much. Of course, there's the fact that female sexuality isn't explored in Naruto aside from cute little girl crushes, so most of the cast comes off as uninterested. Another thing Tsunade managed to do that the other female characters didn't: have a believable, subtle, unspoken love towards a male character. She's too good for this author. Then again, all of his female characters are. I wonder how he comes up with these awesome character designs when he thinks that way about women.

[lvsinsanity]

Fuck.

Now I don't think I'll ever pick up a Naruto book because of that sexist bastard.

I would feel the same way, Ivy and read into the manga the same way if I found out the author was a rampant sexist fuckwad.

[ivy_chan]

I continue to read Naruto out of interest in some of the characters and a sense of duty to finish reading. I find it hard to stop something once I start, especially if that something does make me interested in it.

But it's just SO DISAPPOINTING. And I feel bitter every time the author continues to confirm my expectations.

[ivy_chan]

This is a big reason why I loved Avatar: strong female characters with individual personalities who talked together about things other than boys and fought about things other than boys, and why I was so disappointed with the way Mike and Bryant treated the Zutara shippers. It's one thing to disagree with the fanbase, it's another thing to openly mock them. Some authors don't understand shipping, sadly.

[kinectra]

I don't know if we're thinking of the same webcomic, but I stopped reading MNT Gaiden because of that. There seemed to be a huge psychological...piece...missing. It was refreshing to read your thoughts on disliking work based on the artist's opinions/perceptions expressed in them.

[ivy_chan]

Nope, you got it in one. I still have no reply from the second letter I sent, where I point out that Renoir's problems aren't small or trivial, and that the relationship IS Stockholm's Syndrome. I wrote very specifically why, and explained the analysis. I'm almost glad not to have a response rather than to receive something enraging from an author who won't take criticism.

The fact that, when he came to his friends with his problems, they turned him away and dismissed him by telling him to sympathize with his abuser? AUUGH. I don't care WHAT Raph went through, that doesn't make any of what he's done 'okay'.

[ivy_chan]

...I'm glad to know that there are more people who didn't like that element of the plot, too. I'm always wary about bringing it up in a webcomic forum, because those tend to be full of crazy fans.

Yeah, I'd have that problem.

[aflightoffancy]

The characters stop seeming quite so cool because I question the reason I believed them so great in the first place. By itself, this 'OOC knowledge' won't keep me from enjoying a work of fiction, depending on how severe the opinions, but it will lessen the enjoyment.

Of course, on the other end of the scale, if a creator is known for having egalitarian views, but can't/doesn't quite get that into the work, I'm happily more forgiving and can push infractions aside. Again, it depends on the severity of the infraction.

Re: Yeah, I'd have that problem.

[ivy_chan]

Yes, it only really bothers me when it shows in their work. Then again, I think the prejudices of the author, if they are that major, will show into the work. If an author has certain thoughts on women and their gender role, it will show in their female characters. If they think a certain religion is evil or misinformed, it will show in their writing, even in small amounts. And if the author voices their opinion after their work makes me have the suspicion, well, I can't stop reading into it. Yes, it depends on how prejudiced or stupid the author is, and it won't necessarily RUIN the work, but it will color my reading to a certain extent.