Sometimes my thought-process can be summed up as follows, and it works..

[orange_coat]

All of my observations are right. I AM RIGHT. Unless proven wrong, empirically. Unless I PERSONALLY can empirically see how/why I am wrong, then I am automatically right. That is because MY observations are self-acknowledging, which is really the most crucial starting point as all observations BEGIN from MYSELF. The key thing that allows me to be

Comments

[jeroentiggelman]

To an extent.

For your personal POV and convictions that makes good sense. It is probably helpful to allow that there are also other world views, and allow that many very different ones may be equally right at the same time.

[bren_jay]

Yeah, this.

Knowing the difference between an absolute truth (these are rare) and your personal truth is incredibly important.

This statement seems to assume there are a lot of absolute truths out there, which I think is a bad starting place unless we're talking about scientific theories or the like.

Plus, acknowledging that while your observations may be "right" for you, those same observations are most likely wrong for a whole lot of other people.

Requiring others to justify their worldviews all the time, just because they happen to differ (validly) from yours, would get pretty tiresome very quickly.

[jeroentiggelman]

Thanks.

BTW, if there are any absolute truths at all, they are surely unknowable.

There are truths that are shared widely or assumed to be true by many or all people, though.

Agnostically yours,

Jeroen

[orange_coat]

"It is probably helpful to allow that there are also other world views, and allow that many very different ones may be equally right at the same time." Agreed. So you see? You pointed out something that I didn't immediately think about.

I was just observing how cool/efficient it is to have that solid foundation of self-identity. It's like more substance to work with, when you are building a sculture out of clay.

You take your solid self with you when you read a book, listen to song lyrics, listen to a lecture, have a conversation, even make a livejournal post. All the while, you are allowing yourself to be shaped/molded during process. It's a better foundation, to hold stubbornly onto that substantial self. Rather than allowing other sources to tell you what your foundation is/should be..

[markos]

You seem to place too much emphasis on empirical verification. There are other ways to know things and, thus, other ways to be proven wrong.

[orange_coat]

Well, by empirical I meant by understanding from your own perspective. Rather than assuming that you understand, because you're told to. Or you're told that you should. Which is not an uncommon trap, especially prevalent in religions. "I understand that if I kill myself in a suicide bombing, I will go to heaven and have 70 virgins." "I understand that if I am baptized, I automatically believe in Jesus Christ

[darakat_ewr]

I believe you should stop using the word Empirical, because it does not mean what you think it means.

[sandypawozbun]

Win. :)

[plymouth]

Huh. I don't feel like I have to do much to reinforce my self-confidence most of the time. I think this is a pretty standard INTJ thing - we know what we know and we know what we DON'T know. Mostly when I am trying to psych myself up it is for some physical challenge. I know what I know, but I don't always know what I can DO.

I think I can summarize much of what you said in shorter form by quoting something a friend once said - "Of course I think my opinions are right! If I didn't I'd change them!"

[bren_jay]

I agree - but I think the poster is self-ID'd as an INFJ....

So yeah, most of us have a pretty solid sense of who we are and all that; as an INFJ, she doesn't have that same inborn solid sense of self.

[orange_coat]

That's so amusing. I would have thought that NFs have a good sense of self, being the most people-oriented & considering feelings and whatnot.

Maybe you guys are good at gathering your sense of self from a bunch of objective external data which relates to yourself, while we NF's like to acknowledge/reflect on our subjective feelings more.

Just speculating, but maybe we NF's start from inside then work our way outward. You guys start outward, but because you never had to work your way outward you tend to have the feeling where you objectively know.

[kricketkris]

I wouldn't say that about us- my sense of self is completely separate from data gathering/interpretation. Nothing can touch "me." Observation and analysis takes part in another mental room. Or, to go with a different illustration

[sandypawozbun]

I do think somewhat like this (minus the emphasis on 'Empirical'). However, what I struggle with is that people don't have the same knowledge as me, and therefore can't be right.

I have recently found out that the inability to understand that others don't share your person knowledge is taken into account in a controversial (at least here in Aus) test for autism. Its called the 'Sally-Ann Test'. Its a test I failed. I have Aspergers Syndrome. :) I sometimes wonder if I am an intj because I have AS or if I have AS because I'm intj, because some of the personality traits and thought processes are identical.

[plymouth]

Are Aspergers and INTJ highly correlated? Because I test as borderline Aspergers myself. At least based on informal self-testing using internet tests (the same kind of tests that told me I'm an INTJ for that matter).

I feel like I spend much of my life going back and forth between assuming EVERYONE thinks like me, and assuming I am a complete freak and noone does. It can be kinda whiplashy when I find out the ways I assumed my brain was normal I'm actually a freak on and the ways I thought I was a freak I'm actually normal on. These are both disturbing, for different reasons.

[orange_coat]

My dad has asperger's, you'll know it from the first 5 minutes of talking to him. He is ISTJ, though. I used to think asperger's was more of an ST thing... not so much N.

[night_princess]

No, I don't relate at all. I do not think of "right" in that way.

In general, INTJs are pretty much born with a good amount of self-confidence. Of course we observed what we observed. (Any disagreement with that is due to limits in our data collection instruments. Or theirs. It doesn't mean that we didn't observe what we observed.) We don't need to say or even think about the "rightness" of our observations -- unless there's something wrong with us. An INTJ having to say "I AM RIGHT" is probably in pain.

If you're saying that your attitude works for you and that it helps you, that's great. Since you asked, I don't relate, it doesn't work for me, and if I observe myself sounding like that, I would consider myself to be broken.

I'm curious what people would've posted if you didn't label yourself as an F.