Uses and abuses of mythology

[seluecus]

I’ve been thinking and talking recently with ploratrix about the use (and misuse) of mythology in geek culture and popular media, so I thought I’d post something about it and ask for feedback from the community

Comments

[lynstraine]

You referenced it, but I really enjoyed American Gods.

The troll and tauren societies in WoW ape a lot of concepts from various mythologies, also, but I tend to find those usages problematic, though that's mostly because I find the vision of those cultures problematic as a whole. The most recent event with the trolls involved appeasing the loa of death, Bwonsamdi--pretty clearly evokes Baron Samedi in both name and function. Even though Bwonsamdi was appropriately powerful (since he was actually the one that finished things, moreso than Vol'jin or any of the player characters), I tend to feel kind of concerned about trolls and tauren in particular, since they're very obviously extrapolations of stereotypes--and since the trolls are frequently depicted as bloodthirsty, cannibalistic savages with a pantheon of gods that are also uniformly bloodthirsty and savage (excepting the 'reformed' player character trolls, whose tribe has banned cannibalism).

[seluecus]

While admittedly speaking as someone who actually never played WoW (but has played the original Warcraft I, II and III games), from what I've seen of them I've always had some problems with the real-world referentiality of the trolls and taurens. There are so many much more creative and less offensive ways to handle these things.

[lynstraine]

Yeah, they really are just stereotypes taken out to their most extreme conclusions, especially in the case of the trolls. It becomes even more uncomfortable when you play largely on roleplay servers (which I did for the past few months, though probably won't be doing much of anymore) and you see folks not doing much to enrich the source material.

[siadea]

I am right there with you! I have, like, half a portion of an article written about it, even. It bothers me a lot, too, and I spent a while fretting about it and thinking about what to do, because once you see it, it can't be unseen. I sort of decided to take the bull (ahem) by the horns directly. ...So I wound up making a lot of characters that undermine them in various ways as best I can! (Do not mess with the Dalaran researcher, for example. She has studied on Zandalar, and does not think much of Alliance scholarship.)

[paperclipchains]

Mythology is such weird and dicey territory, you always run into so many problems.

For example, Supernatural - at some point, it sounds like somebody said "Well, shit, we can't just have Abrahamic myth in here, can we...?" And so they threw in some tokens from other religions and promptly fucked them all up and the whole thing is just mired in Unfortunate Implications.

I appreciate seeing myth that isn't Greek/Roman or Christian in fiction, and I don't think it's inherently appropriative to use myth from things outside of your home (or sort-of-home, 'cause consider the usage of greco-roman myth) culture, but it can wind up really problematic. Going back to the supernatural example - leaving them out would be writing them out of existence, but including them wound up being just stupid. In supernatural's case I definitely think it's probably better to carry the Unfortunate Implication that Christianity is the One True Faith than to so terribly mangle all these other mythologies.

The other thing that springs to mind is Crystal

[entelodont]

American Gods really pissed me off, actually. It should have been called European Gods and Some Gods That Neil Gaiman Made Up. It was incredibly whitecentric, and while I frankly don't trust Neil Gaiman to handle racial issues with class and grace, he could have made some effort to include the enormous amount of mythologies that truly evoke the breadth of the American landscape. I was incredibly disappointed, and it drives me nuts to hear it held up as a positive example when all I can see is the same old bullshit erasure.

On that note, I am still waiting to see a white-authored depiction of a Magical Latina that doesn't cause me to cringe. So often such characters are used as a way to exploit indigenous American cultures without the bother of having to be specific or respectful. In general, I despise seeing mythologies disrespected and reduced to yet another source of magic and monsters.

[etoilepb]

I do think it's worth noting, with Gaiman and American Gods, that Anansi was a major character and got a sequel to himself. Kali also features, as well as a handful of his other recurring non-European favorites. I'll definitely agree to the fact that it's mainly centered on Norse and Eastern European deities, though.

[foxie]

I read Anansi Boys first, which is a spin-off book about a character from American Gods and also includes almost no white characters. That may be why I didn't notice how whitewashed American Gods was when I read it. But, you're right, it is. I also remember thinking the part about the djinni was problematic.

That said, I think it's expected for a white male heterosexual to write a book like American Gods, and unusual for him to even try his hand at something like Anansi Boys. This is why it's good to read writing by a diverse group of people ... if all of them "write what they know," then you get the gift of a lot of different experiences by reading that writing

[entelodont]

I'm pretty damn sure he made up the god of the Internet, which is what I was referring to. And I'm not going to pat him on the head for writing stuff that slightly less fucked up than the status quo. His writing is downright reprehensible at times, and that needs to be acknowledged instead of humping his leg for trying, as if trying is somehow beneficial to marginalized people. If he is offensive, that is not to be respected; his willingness to exploit cultures that he doesn't "know" is just the same old white Western privilegefest I've read a million times.

[zellion]

Not sure if this was what you meant but what first came to mind is Jacqueline Carey's Terre D'Ange books. I love how she's melded different elements from mythologies, everything from Judaism to Persian myths, all around the world with a creative alternate history