It really fascinates me that we can read the same books and come to completely opposite conclusions and opinions, and I'm not saying that in a bad way either - I really do mean it
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Re: Hmmm... Part 2pilly2009August 30 2005, 13:10:26 UTC
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that they *don't* have affection for him. I just meant that by GoF Percy's pompousness is getting teased to the point where it's not affectionate.
Ack, my apologies again for reading you wrong. It's just that you mentioned that the family that showed love for the pranking twins could not also show love for Percy's pompousness, but later gave an example in your second post about how Molly's affection for the twins is apparent despite her scolding of them. I kind of put these together, because Molly loves the twins in spite of their pranks and teasing, not because of it; and similarly to me, the Weasleys (pre-OotP) loved Percy in spite of his pompousness, not because of it.
I don't think the Penelope thing was Percy being ashamed of anything, though. He was over-sensitive about his family finding out and Fred and George probably making him look silly in front of Penelope. I don't think anybody in that situation is acting in a particularly bad way, and they all care about Ginny.I didn't mean to imply that
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Re: Hmmm... Part 2sistermagpieAugust 30 2005, 13:57:47 UTC
Oh no, it's not your fault for mis-reading me. I did make it sound like I was saying Percy wasn't shown any affection or love at all. And I agree I don't think Ginny is revealing anything particularly bad. The family dynamics all seem pretty normal.
The quote about Percy not noticing Crouch's Imperio etc. is somewhere early in OotP, when Harry first gets to Grimmauld Place. I think it's when Ron tells the story about Percy's promotion and the fight and Harry privately thinks that Percy didn't seem so competent to him or something like that.
Re: Hmmm... Part 2sistermagpieAugust 29 2005, 16:48:46 UTC
And the fact that he refused to consider that his father might have a point of sorts - whether or not he was completely right or wrong isn't the issue - there was no respect, however grudging, for his father, who had worked at the ministry for years and was well aware of the "politics" despite everything else.
I don't think either listened to the true points the other made.
His letter to Ron in OotP was nothing short of obnoxious, and that was 'the final straw' for me. But something being the "final straw" for you doesn't say anything about Percy's character. I think Percy is frankly jealous of Harry, myself, and don't have any sympathetic defense for his letter in OotP, but my liking the character or his actions or not doesn't have anything to do with whether he feels like he belongs in his family, which I don't think he does. I think his behavior makes perfect sense, viewed on his own terms. Maybe if he had a different personality, had a sense of humor and didn't take everything personally he wouldn't feel this way. But
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Re: Hmmm... Part 2midnitemaraud_rAugust 30 2005, 00:43:38 UTC
I don't think either listened to the true points the other made.I don't either. This was the impression I got, and you'll have to forgive me for cutting and pasting from another reply
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Re: Hmmm... Part 2sistermagpieAugust 30 2005, 04:10:11 UTC
OH yes, I agree. And I don't think Molly favors the twins either--in fact, it seems like the twins and Percy feed off each other with resentment from Molly. She praises Percy for getting things like Head Boy and tells the twins to be more like him, but then also to Percy probably seems to let them get away with stuff and take him for granted or something. As you said, the twins are just attention-grabbers--it's what they do
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Re: Hmmm... Part 1cheshyreAugust 29 2005, 12:32:55 UTC
I've seen very little evidence that he truly takes an interest in any of his siblings except where it affects him and his own image or standing.
Goblet of Fire the Second Task: Dumbledore and Ludo Bagman stood beaming at Harry and Ron from the bank as they swam nearer, but Percy, who looked very white and somehow much younger than usual, came splashing out to meet them. ... Percy seized Ron and was dragging him back to the bank ("Gerroff, Percy, I'm all right!") ... Madam Pomfrey had gone to rescue Ron from Percy's clutches
Percy risks looking like a fool (and dereliction of his assigned duty, because the third quote happens while the judges are conferring) out of concern for Ron.
Re: Hmmm... Part 1snaleAugust 29 2005, 15:15:58 UTC
I think he does care for his family, he's just usually too priggish to show that affection. And at this point in the story, he's too wrapped up in his own pride to show them any love whatsoever.
Re: Hmmm... Part 1midnitemaraud_rAugust 30 2005, 01:21:48 UTC
I sort of have to agree with snale here. I don't think that Percy doesn't love his family. Really, I don't think any of them really articulate their love for each other (with the possible exception of Fred and George to each other) in very obvious ways, (except Molly who hugs them all and embarrases them *g*) I didn't think Percy looked foolish in that scene. Ron was injured pretty badly at the end of OotP, and Ginny was injured as well, but there was no word, no concern shown from Percy then. And when Arthur was seriously injured and came close to dying in OotP, where was Percy?
I had a huge argument with my cousin several years back, and my cousin and I are more like sisters than cousins. We hadn't spoken in over 6 months (and before that we spoke every other day), but when I found out that she had gotten hurt in an accident, I called her immediately and went to see her. It didn't matter that I still felt that I was right and she was wrong with our argument. That's what family does.
Re: Hmmm... Part 1aquahauteAugust 29 2005, 23:16:18 UTC
Percy, to me, seems to be lacking in any kind of sense of humor.
That doesn't make it okay for his family to tease him mercilessly - as someone said above, if you know something hurts someone you care about, you stop doing it, whether the fault lies in you or in them.
I'm particularly sensitive about this because it's one of the major causes of my own friction with my father - he takes it personally when I don't laugh at his tasteless or cruel jokes, and grumbles at me and tells me it's my fault because I lack a "sense of humor" (then goes on to ask me how I have any friends if I have such a "terrible sense of humor" - but then that's more about how mine is different than his and he has great trouble accepting any viewpoint different than his even in something so simple and individual as a sense of humor).
So the idea that Percy doesn't fit in BECAUSE no one will accept that he's different really hits home for me.
Re: Hmmm... Part 1midnitemaraud_rAugust 30 2005, 01:10:38 UTC
I don't think I articulated this well in my comment. Fred and George... I think I have a decent sense of humor but I wouldn't want them as brothers either. Percy's lack of a sense of humor... He doesn't seem to be able to laugh at himself much either, and in a family that large and diverse, it leads to problems. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that the twins, or even the rest of the family is justified by their teasing, but sibling rivalry does exist and it doesn't mean that there's no love between the siblings
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Ack, my apologies again for reading you wrong. It's just that you mentioned that the family that showed love for the pranking twins could not also show love for Percy's pompousness, but later gave an example in your second post about how Molly's affection for the twins is apparent despite her scolding of them. I kind of put these together, because Molly loves the twins in spite of their pranks and teasing, not because of it; and similarly to me, the Weasleys (pre-OotP) loved Percy in spite of his pompousness, not because of it.
I don't think the Penelope thing was Percy being ashamed of anything, though. He was over-sensitive about his family finding out and Fred and George probably making him look silly in front of Penelope. I don't think anybody in that situation is acting in a particularly bad way, and they all care about Ginny.I didn't mean to imply that ( ... )
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The quote about Percy not noticing Crouch's Imperio etc. is somewhere early in OotP, when Harry first gets to Grimmauld Place. I think it's when Ron tells the story about Percy's promotion and the fight and Harry privately thinks that Percy didn't seem so competent to him or something like that.
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I don't think either listened to the true points the other made.
His letter to Ron in OotP was nothing short of obnoxious, and that was 'the final straw' for me. But something being the "final straw" for you doesn't say anything about Percy's character. I think Percy is frankly jealous of Harry, myself, and don't have any sympathetic defense for his letter in OotP, but my liking the character or his actions or not doesn't have anything to do with whether he feels like he belongs in his family, which I don't think he does. I think his behavior makes perfect sense, viewed on his own terms. Maybe if he had a different personality, had a sense of humor and didn't take everything personally he wouldn't feel this way. But ( ... )
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Goblet of Fire the Second Task:
Dumbledore and Ludo Bagman stood beaming at Harry and Ron from the bank as they swam nearer, but Percy, who looked very white and somehow much younger than usual, came splashing out to meet them. ... Percy seized Ron and was dragging him back to the bank ("Gerroff, Percy, I'm all right!") ... Madam Pomfrey had gone to rescue Ron from Percy's clutches
Percy risks looking like a fool (and dereliction of his assigned duty, because the third quote happens while the judges are conferring) out of concern for Ron.
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I had a huge argument with my cousin several years back, and my cousin and I are more like sisters than cousins. We hadn't spoken in over 6 months (and before that we spoke every other day), but when I found out that she had gotten hurt in an accident, I called her immediately and went to see her. It didn't matter that I still felt that I was right and she was wrong with our argument. That's what family does.
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That doesn't make it okay for his family to tease him mercilessly - as someone said above, if you know something hurts someone you care about, you stop doing it, whether the fault lies in you or in them.
I'm particularly sensitive about this because it's one of the major causes of my own friction with my father - he takes it personally when I don't laugh at his tasteless or cruel jokes, and grumbles at me and tells me it's my fault because I lack a "sense of humor" (then goes on to ask me how I have any friends if I have such a "terrible sense of humor" - but then that's more about how mine is different than his and he has great trouble accepting any viewpoint different than his even in something so simple and individual as a sense of humor).
So the idea that Percy doesn't fit in BECAUSE no one will accept that he's different really hits home for me.
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