I can't speak for HP, but in the Naruto fandom a lot of Hinata fans seem to hate Sakura and vice versa, probably because they're the two girls most likely to get it on with Naruto. Apparently Bleach fandom is just as bad.
It's more of a "my favourite - who I identify with - is better than yours" attitude. Shipping is just a part of it.
Which is a shame, Sakura/Hinata could be friends and Rukia/Orihime adore each other. I hate it when fandumb uses them just to hate on the character THEY don't like.
I noticed this tends to happen A LOT in most fandoms, especially with female characters. Aeris vs Tifa, Hermione vs Ginny, Katara vs Mai etc etc.
Although it isn't talked about in detail in the books, I think Hermione and Ginny have a good friendship. I think they shared a room whenever Hermione stayed at the Burrow. One person on another forum said that she thought Ginny was only friends with Hermione so she could get closer to Harry. In other words, this poster thought that Ginny was manipulative and not a genuine friend of Hermione. Wtf?
This thing also occurs with male characters as well. From Phantom of the Opera--Raoul vs. Phantom. So many fans seem to hate on Raoul. While a lot of people who like the Phantom hate Raoul, most people who like Raoul seem to still like Erik. So sometimes these things occur in one direction.
Granted, I know people who hate characters who then don't bash them. Which is understandable -- not everyone likes every character, and most of my friends are willing to admit that their dislike for a character colors their opinions.
And sometimes they hate the characters because they know exactly what kind of place they are in -- for example, Rosé in the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime. I have friends who were raised in coercive religious environments so it was painful to see a character in that situation and not taking steps to flee with great haste. These friends would also acknowledge that they knew how hard that would be, from experience, but discomfort with the situation was coloring their emotions towards the character. I don't know if these people would bash the character, though, simply because of that knowing.
Granted, I know people who hate characters who then don't bash them. Which is understandable -- not everyone likes every character, and most of my friends are willing to admit that their dislike for a character colors their opinions.
And sometimes they hate the characters because they know exactly what kind of place they are in.
I feel like something big is that people cannot understand how characters could act differently than they (the bashers) project that they would act in that situation. It's simply an inability to put themselves into that character's shoes and judge, if all of these things were happening, in real time, how they would realistically react. People have this idealized feeling of how one "should" act in those situations (which is most certainly how they themselves would act, right?), and when there's a deviation from that, there's a reason to bash. Circumstances? How the character was brought up (Hey, Yuna and Colette, why didn't you just say "screw the world, I'm going to live my own life!" Weak characters, huh?)? The fact that they might be under massive, massive stress that's affecting their ability to make decisions? The culture of their world
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Or people who bash Sakura Haruno for crying and calling out for Naruto when her village was blown up by Akatsuki. Because I'm sure no-one cries when their home is destroyed. I've seen this far too many times for real life stuff, like people criticising the victims of the VTech massacre for not beating up the gunman or whatever, even calling them 'pussies'. It's easy to say that when you're behind a keyboard and not in front of a gun, and I'm sure many of these brave armchair warriors would be running away if they were in that situation.
Yes, very much that. A lot of these people are young and have no life experience. Therefore, they obviously think that if put in such a situation, they would perform A and B the C of D and so on. It comes of being young and thinking you're A) smarter than everyone else, and B) invincible. What bothers me much more is when 20 and 30-somethings act that way.
The fact is that when you've got a gun in your face... some people will act heroically. You know which people are likely to do that? Soldiers. Police. People who have been trained to do so. You know who's not likely to do that? Teenagers who have no combat experience beyond wrestling with their sibling. There's a reason "Courageous teen saves school from gunman" would be a headline.
This can then be applied to other things, like "breaking down in tears when your home is destroyed."
Now if can post this in the right place.tasogare_n_himeAugust 24 2010, 21:07:31 UTC
This exactly! I even do it toward characters. (See my post concerning Mimori, from Scryed below.)
Also to add: I'd like to think I would do something different in the same situations she was in, I'm a very different person from Mimori, I'm far more cynical, and less likely to think better of people than her. But put in her situation, with the same knowledge she had, I really don't know what I would do. I still think some of the things she did were stupid.
I think it's a common thing in most fandoms, a lot of it has to do with shipping.
Take some of my old fandoms for example: I have no idea what the Gundam Wing fandom is is like now, but when I was in it ridiculous Relena hate was pretty much standard.
In the FFVII fandom if you like Tifa, Aerith is the enemy, and vice-a-versa no matter what their relationship in the game was. I had a cousin look at me like I'd grown another head when I told him I loved both of them.
It even happens in small fandoms like Scryed. People who like Scheris, tend to hate Mimori. (After re-watching the series again, I'm still on the fence myself to be honest. For a genius Mimori did some pretty damn stupid things in my opinion, YMMV of course, though I still can't say I hate her.) And may heaven help you if you mention being a Scheris fan with certain Mimori fans around...-_-'...
It even happens in small fandoms like Scryed. People who like Scheris, tend to hate Mimori. (After re-watching the series again, I'm still on the fence myself to be honest. For a genius Mimori did some pretty damn stupid things in my opinion, YMMV of course, though I still can't say I hate her.) And may heaven help you if you mention being a Scheris fan with certain Mimori fans around...-_-'...
Yegods, why do people act like this? It's OK to like different characters. I happen to LIKE Scheris *and* Mimori. It's been a while (and by while, I mean aeons) since I watched Scryed. But from what I remember, Scheris and Mimori are both decent characters trying to make the best they can of harrowing situations.
Sometimes I feel that the more realistic (and thus, flawed) a character is, the more it's likely to get a lot of haters. It's probably because unconsciously, people try to find in fiction what doesn't exist in real life - perfection (or rather, their own perception of it). So if the character doesn't act in the most itelligent way/according to the reader's beliefs (see checkerboard's comment on some can't comprehend why Colette and Yuna accepted their fate)/etc, it disappoints the reader and gets bashed.
But you are completely right, a lot of bashing comes from not taking the time to try and understand what lead a character to (re)act the way he or she does.
There's pairing wars, too, but that's a whole different matter (and the most ridiculous reason ever to hate a character >_>)
Sometimes I feel that the more realistic (and thus, flawed) a character is, the more it's likely to get a lot of haters.
In the Harry Potter fandom, I find that the most 'normal' characters seem to get more hate--Ron, Ginny, Cho, Lily. I find that those 4 characters are actually what typical teenagers are more like (Lily in the flashback). Whereas there's less hate for, say, Hermione and Luna. Maybe their 'differentness' endeared readers more? I mean, that's why I'm drawn to them. But I wasn't sure if correlation implied causation here...
Sometimes I feel that the more realistic (and thus, flawed) a character is, the more it's likely to get a lot of haters.
THIS. Quess Paraya from Gundam: Char's Counterattack receives some absolutely vicious hate from all walks of the fandom, and even though she's not going to be everyone's cup of tea the way she acts is perfectly realistic for a girl her age in her situation. She's not mindlessly, unrealistically sweet despite her situation, and her bratiness isn't sugarcoated as other characters do display annoyance with her. To me that makes her a very realistic character, and one I do relate to a lot because of my life experiences. But no, despite the fact that the real damage she does should be blamed on Char (a grown man who completely took advantage of and more-or-less brainwashed her for his own gain), her being a bratty 13-year-old makes her an infinitely more deplorable human being than a man who was trying to drop an asteroid on the EarthI could also rant for hours on how Ghinius Sakhalin from 08th MS Team isn't the one-
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Which is a shame, Sakura/Hinata could be friends and Rukia/Orihime adore each other. I hate it when fandumb uses them just to hate on the character THEY don't like.
I noticed this tends to happen A LOT in most fandoms, especially with female characters. Aeris vs Tifa, Hermione vs Ginny, Katara vs Mai etc etc.
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This thing also occurs with male characters as well. From Phantom of the Opera--Raoul vs. Phantom. So many fans seem to hate on Raoul. While a lot of people who like the Phantom hate Raoul, most people who like Raoul seem to still like Erik. So sometimes these things occur in one direction.
Also, Peter Pettigrew vs. the other Marauders.
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And sometimes they hate the characters because they know exactly what kind of place they are in -- for example, Rosé in the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime. I have friends who were raised in coercive religious environments so it was painful to see a character in that situation and not taking steps to flee with great haste. These friends would also acknowledge that they knew how hard that would be, from experience, but discomfort with the situation was coloring their emotions towards the character. I don't know if these people would bash the character, though, simply because of that knowing.
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And sometimes they hate the characters because they know exactly what kind of place they are in.
That's true too.
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I've seen this far too many times for real life stuff, like people criticising the victims of the VTech massacre for not beating up the gunman or whatever, even calling them 'pussies'. It's easy to say that when you're behind a keyboard and not in front of a gun, and I'm sure many of these brave armchair warriors would be running away if they were in that situation.
Reply
The fact is that when you've got a gun in your face... some people will act heroically. You know which people are likely to do that? Soldiers. Police. People who have been trained to do so. You know who's not likely to do that? Teenagers who have no combat experience beyond wrestling with their sibling. There's a reason "Courageous teen saves school from gunman" would be a headline.
This can then be applied to other things, like "breaking down in tears when your home is destroyed."
Reply
Also to add: I'd like to think I would do something different in the same situations she was in, I'm a very different person from Mimori, I'm far more cynical, and less likely to think better of people than her. But put in her situation, with the same knowledge she had, I really don't know what I would do. I still think some of the things she did were stupid.
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Take some of my old fandoms for example: I have no idea what the Gundam Wing fandom is is like now, but when I was in it ridiculous Relena hate was pretty much standard.
In the FFVII fandom if you like Tifa, Aerith is the enemy, and vice-a-versa no matter what their relationship in the game was. I had a cousin look at me like I'd grown another head when I told him I loved both of them.
It even happens in small fandoms like Scryed. People who like Scheris, tend to hate Mimori. (After re-watching the series again, I'm still on the fence myself to be honest. For a genius Mimori did some pretty damn stupid things in my opinion, YMMV of course, though I still can't say I hate her.) And may heaven help you if you mention being a Scheris fan with certain Mimori fans around...-_-'...
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Yegods, why do people act like this? It's OK to like different characters. I happen to LIKE Scheris *and* Mimori. It's been a while (and by while, I mean aeons) since I watched Scryed. But from what I remember, Scheris and Mimori are both decent characters trying to make the best they can of harrowing situations.
Reply
It's probably because unconsciously, people try to find in fiction what doesn't exist in real life - perfection (or rather, their own perception of it). So if the character doesn't act in the most itelligent way/according to the reader's beliefs (see checkerboard's comment on some can't comprehend why Colette and Yuna accepted their fate)/etc, it disappoints the reader and gets bashed.
But you are completely right, a lot of bashing comes from not taking the time to try and understand what lead a character to (re)act the way he or she does.
There's pairing wars, too, but that's a whole different matter (and the most ridiculous reason ever to hate a character >_>)
Reply
In the Harry Potter fandom, I find that the most 'normal' characters seem to get more hate--Ron, Ginny, Cho, Lily. I find that those 4 characters are actually what typical teenagers are more like (Lily in the flashback). Whereas there's less hate for, say, Hermione and Luna. Maybe their 'differentness' endeared readers more? I mean, that's why I'm drawn to them. But I wasn't sure if correlation implied causation here...
Reply
THIS. Quess Paraya from Gundam: Char's Counterattack receives some absolutely vicious hate from all walks of the fandom, and even though she's not going to be everyone's cup of tea the way she acts is perfectly realistic for a girl her age in her situation. She's not mindlessly, unrealistically sweet despite her situation, and her bratiness isn't sugarcoated as other characters do display annoyance with her. To me that makes her a very realistic character, and one I do relate to a lot because of my life experiences. But no, despite the fact that the real damage she does should be blamed on Char (a grown man who completely took advantage of and more-or-less brainwashed her for his own gain), her being a bratty 13-year-old makes her an infinitely more deplorable human being than a man who was trying to drop an asteroid on the EarthI could also rant for hours on how Ghinius Sakhalin from 08th MS Team isn't the one- ( ... )
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