About WMF, and in addition to what we discussed already :), I think that the worldbuilding is definitely nice, and I'm a sucker for detailed explanations of how things work in a fantasy world, languages, culture, weaponry, different races, etc. No doubt Rothfuss has a lot of imagination and ability of description. It's just not enough to outweight the bad parts.
Maybe the Russian thing is because of the climate? People often associate Russia with cold (though it's tecnically stupid, since Russia is HUGE and has all sorts of climats) and the Ademre is a tough area to live.
Maybe the Russian thing is because of the climate? People often associate Russia with cold (though it's tecnically stupid, since Russia is HUGE and has all sorts of climats) and the Ademre is a tough area to live.
Ah, I hadn't thought of that, but that could make sense! (My experience is with the more fertile parts, so I definitely don't think of Russia as barren steppe + snow, but you're right about that being the perception.
I think Kvothe -- either young hotshot Kvothe of the story or Kote the innkeeper -- would bug the hell out of me, for different reasons, if I were to meet him in person, but the positives of the worldbuilding and secondary characters outweigh any negatives of the protagonist / narrator / plot for me... But, like I said, I totally understand why you find him insufferable, and why that ruins the enjoyment of the series for you. :/
Oh I'll definitely finish the series (it's only a trilogy, and Rothfuss HAS to bring on some plot in the last book, so maybe the whole Chandrian thing will be worth it, I mean, there's lots of stuff to be told yet, the Amyr, the Chandrian mystery, the prophecies of the evil tree, how Bast is met, which King Kvothe killed and why, how the war started, etc.), at least to see how it ends. A bit like the Eragon series, which I kinda found okish in the start and more annoying later (when Eragon got prettied and toughened up by the elves), but I still finished it.
I'm actually kind of dreading the third book being Chandrian and Amyr heavy, because those have been my least favorite parts over the first two. I dunno, I might like it more if I know there's a reveal coming and not just creepy mysterious encounters. I hope so...
But I definitely am looking forward to the meeting with Bast (and any editorial comments from present-time Bast, heh), and seeing the resolution with the Cthaeh.
I read the first Eragon book and thought it was, heh, very much like the Tolkien-derivative epic fantasy *I* was writing at that age, which was not exactly a good thing. But I have heard it goes downhill from there, so haven't sought out the rest of the trilogy. What you say does not make me regret that decision :P
Oh dear, I nodded my head off through the whole geekery-indulgent section of your review :P A lot of the things, like engineering and chemistry, don't make me feel excited, but I still LOVE reading about, and, intuitively, that level of detail coupled with Rothfuss' writing style just really gets me. (That's why I keep responding to everything WMF as The Dog that Said Squirrel! Sorry in advance!)
I'm not sure if I would have picked up on Meluan being Kvothe's mother's sister (most likely) without having read some speculation on it, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. I think so, too. It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint it for the longest time. I do think it's very probable.
Same on your speculations about Willem and Sim and the rest - I did not come to the same conclusions, but there's definitely a very interesting sort of steadfastness about Willem that caught my eye. I'll have to reread some parts :D
I continue to enjoy Kvothe's grudge against poetry. My
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Yay, I was so hopping you were still in the mood to talk about this book now that I was finally finished an in a position to do so informedly! :D
and, intuitively, that level of detail coupled with Rothfuss' writing style just really gets me
Me too! The fact that it's chemistry and engineering and, like, metaphysical thermodynamics is gravy, but I just like the overall geekiness permeating the whole thing. I ought to look up Rothfuss to see what his educational background is; I wonder is he studied science/engineering formally, or on his own, or has a really, really good science beta. I mean, nothing he talks about is above what you would learn in a uni physics/chem survey course (or, you know, made up), but the way his characters talk about things feels genuine to me, which a lot of characters-talking-about-science doesn't. Anyway, it's such a joy! I didn't care that the plot seemed to be standing still for huge chunks, because I was so happy to geek out.
It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me
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part 2 (of 3)hamsterwomanAugust 30 2012, 17:32:24 UTC
I still think that, given that it's Kvothe who's telling the story, a lot of it is in his head, which makes perfect sense, because he's got a HUGE ego boost and is essentially a lovelorn teenager. That's not necessarily to be liked, but I find it bearable.Hmm, I hadn't thought of it like that... I guess I can sort of see that as an explanation for some part (in the depth of my Dragaera obsession, I'm happy to ascribe pretty much anything to unreliable narrator, heh), and while I'm still not sure what this would imply about present-day-Kvothe-the-narrator (and he is pretty open about holding his younger self up for ridicule in other cases, so, maybe that), I could sort of see it? Except the conversation with Fela and Sim at the end, because, unless Kvothe-the-narrator just made that up, or is misremembering it through the haze of an ego boost... Heh, maybe that was that. Maybe the actual conversation went like, Fela: "[What's her name, the Modegan girl] really wishes you'd make a pass at her, Kvothe", and he filled in all the rest on
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and the last onehamsterwomanAugust 30 2012, 17:32:43 UTC
I feel this sort of internalized anxiety might answer for some of his actions, including, perhaps, his outburst with DennaI was trying to figure out/justify this to myself, and I'm still not sure. On the one hand, Kvothe has been attempting to study the Chandrian and collect information on them methodically and without freaking out due to the trauma. On the other hand, Kvothe is really good at compartamentalization (compartamentalization is kind of a professional skill for a sympathist XP), so maybe that's why he can hold it together enough for research, while the sudden juxtaposition of Chandrian-related legend and singing (which is what got his parents killed) and a person he loves could've broken through the compartamentalization
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An Artifical Night was my favourite Toby Daye book so far - I loved how she worked the Tam Lin stuff into it, and I think it's where she begins to really hit her stride as a writer. I can definitely agree with your criticisms though.
Have you read McGuire's latest book, Discount Armageddon? It's the beginning of a different series, so you might enjoy it more. Also, there are talking mice XD
I think I'd rank An Artificial Night as my favorite, too. Tam Lin, lack of Toby the PI being oblivious, lots of interaction with Ludaeig, Tybalt and Quentin, who are my favorite secondaries -- so, lots of good things! I would agree about the writing, too, I think (which I also did feel was stronger in the fourth one, like, the description of the iron prison).
I have not read Discount Armageddon though I'd heard about it -- that's the cryptozoologist thing, right? Talking mice sounds promising, actually! XD And I might enjoy something less noirish more. Definitely something for me to keep in mind, so thank you for mentioning it! :)
Yep, it's the cryptozoologist thing. It's similar to the Toby books, but with pseudo-sciencey things instead of faeries. And the main character is a ballroom dancer, so at least being competent at mystery-solving isn't supposed to be her job XD
And the main character is a ballroom dancer, so at least being competent at mystery-solving isn't supposed to be her job XD
Haha, that's actually a very good argument in favor! XD
And I love urban fantasy with fairies, so that is one aspect of the Toby books that does appeal to me (though I have to say a lot of her fairies don't feel inhuman enough to me. The Ludaeig does, and that's why she's my favorite), but I like pseudo-sciencey things, too, so, yeah, I'll definitely give this a try if I come across it!
Ah, Iri/Niall. Best thing ever to come out of the WL series - I've read the first two books, and somehow never wanted the rest. Leslie and Donia are my second-favourites, btw. ... somehow, when just reading the recap of the series's ending is more fulfilling that actually reading the books, I feel genuinely disappointed.
Ah, Iri/Niall. Best thing ever to come out of the WL series
So very much agreed! (And I'm pretty impressed that this relationship exists in a YA series.)
In retrospect, I think the first two books are the best, and it starts getting kind of unwieldy and crowded after that. I liked Leslie a lot, too -- I think she's my favorite after Iri and Niall. And after that I can't really tell -- Donia is on par with the other principals for me.
You may want to track down the two Iri-Niall-and-Leslie centric short stories, "Old Habits" (it features a bunch of other people, but you can ignore them :P) and "Stopping Time", and maybe "Unexpected Family", for the beginning. And "Merely Mortal" has some very nice Donia moments (and spoilers for the last book, but I'm guessing you're not worried about that :)
Thanks for the recs! Will do that when I'm in the mood for WL. Btw, I totally skipped your Kingkiller impressions because Dasha wants me to read it and I'm trying not to get spoiled:) They are my to-go books on the reading list when I crave a traditional fantasy.
PS. I'm just asking because some time ago you said my posts didn't appear in your friendlist, so please don't feel any pressure to join in or anything. Have you seen my international gift exchange proposal? Just to make sure it was your decision not to join, not lj eating up my posts again (god, it feels so awkward to type this, like I'm asking for a favour *uncomfortable* So I really hope you get it the right way, not the way I think it sounded:)
Dasha is right :) (But I forget/am confused -- have you read the first Kvothe books, just not Wise Man's Fear, or you haven't read them at all yet? Because I thought you and Dasha were talking about Denna on her LJ...?)
I did see the internation gift exchange post :) (fortunately the flist problem, whatever that was, doesn't seem to have come back, though this is actually a good reminder for me to go back and check periodically). It seems like a really neat idea! I'm mulling over for myself whether I think I would find shopping for care package thingies for a person I didn't know well fun or stressful, for myself personally. (I used to enjoy "secret santa" type things, and then I had kids and with them came birthday parties for their friends and endless hours of wandering the toy aisles and asking, "No, but what does your friend like? Does he like Legos? Pokemon? superheroes? cars? How can you not know? What do you talk about?", and shopping for relatives who increasingly have everything, usually in triplicate, and looking for
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(and the weird paragraph about the extra vagina muscles witches have or whatever... WTF was that, and why) O.o But why would they need...you know what? Never mind. This, plus There was a bunch of metaphysical revelations that I didn't really care about and have probably mostly forgotten by now is pretty much why I stopped reading these.
It's been a loooong while since I stopped reading the Rachel Morgan series, so forgive my fuzzy memory, but Trent is the vampire (ex-)boyfriend, right? Wasn't he dead for a while? Also, :( about Matalina, as I remember really liking all the faeries, and kind of both looking forward to (to see how it's going to be handled) and not looking forward to (because I like them) Jenks' approaching mortality and what, if anything, is going to be done about it.
Skipping the Wise Man's Fear review, since I'm planning on reading it myself hopefully pretty soon. :)
Nawat was one of my favorite characters in the Trickster duology (which I didn't like very much, tbh), and it was neat to have a story from his POV.
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But why would they need...you know what? Never mind.
Well, if you do want to know: [witch gynecology] Probably to promote conception? The extra muscles lock after intercourse or something. Also, apparently because male witches have smaller penises. IDK XP Trent is actually the elf guy -- Trenton Kalamack, the city councilor whose dad ran the summer camp where Rachel was cured of her disease. (Kisten is the vampire ex-boyfriend, and he's still dead. :P) I'm pretty sure Rachel/Trent is actually the endgame, because they end up coming into conflict and acquiring additional bonds, and I'm honestly just fine with that, because their interaction is the most interesting thread
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Well, if you do want to know Ah, good to know that there's actually a purpose there. Although, lol, I don't think this is quite what Tolkien had in mind when he extolled the values of complete worldbuilding. XD
Trent is actually the elf guy -- Trenton Kalamack Oh, now I remember him! Yup, it's been a while. XD Rachel/Trent endgame doesn't surprise me, since they've been shipteased since, er, a long time ago. But then again, Rachel gets shipteased with everybody. Sorry to hear about the direction Nick has taken, though, since I actually kinda liked him.
But Jenks, at least, is good for another couple of decades, because that time Rachel turned him big apparently reset his biological clock, so now he's got another 20 years. Yay! Cop-out or not, he really made the series fun for me, so I'm glad to hear that it looks like he'll be sticking around for a while longer.
I don't know if you've started NotW yet, but I found the beginning kind of slow going, until he got to the University, and then the book really took off for me.Sadly, I
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Rachel/Trent endgame doesn't surprise me, since they've been shipteased since, er, a long time ago
Since the first book, pretty much. And since the trajectory with Rachel and the others is to have them get together over the course of a couple of books and then for the relationship to fail in some dramatic way, it's been pretty clear that the long game with Trent is leading up to something :)
I liked Nick early on, but he's been getting more and more straightforwardly badguy for a while now. Ah well...
And, yeah, I'm happy about the Jenks copout, too, because he is one of the most enjoyable characters in the series.
LOTR was much the same for me the first time I read it
I was stuck in the Shire for months, and then I got to the Council of Elrond and the whole thing really took off for me. So, I can totally understand the beginning of LotR going slow :P
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Maybe the Russian thing is because of the climate? People often associate Russia with cold (though it's tecnically stupid, since Russia is HUGE and has all sorts of climats) and the Ademre is a tough area to live.
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Ah, I hadn't thought of that, but that could make sense! (My experience is with the more fertile parts, so I definitely don't think of Russia as barren steppe + snow, but you're right about that being the perception.
I think Kvothe -- either young hotshot Kvothe of the story or Kote the innkeeper -- would bug the hell out of me, for different reasons, if I were to meet him in person, but the positives of the worldbuilding and secondary characters outweigh any negatives of the protagonist / narrator / plot for me... But, like I said, I totally understand why you find him insufferable, and why that ruins the enjoyment of the series for you. :/
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But I definitely am looking forward to the meeting with Bast (and any editorial comments from present-time Bast, heh), and seeing the resolution with the Cthaeh.
I read the first Eragon book and thought it was, heh, very much like the Tolkien-derivative epic fantasy *I* was writing at that age, which was not exactly a good thing. But I have heard it goes downhill from there, so haven't sought out the rest of the trilogy. What you say does not make me regret that decision :P
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I'm not sure if I would have picked up on Meluan being Kvothe's mother's sister (most likely) without having read some speculation on it, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. I think so, too. It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint it for the longest time. I do think it's very probable.
Same on your speculations about Willem and Sim and the rest - I did not come to the same conclusions, but there's definitely a very interesting sort of steadfastness about Willem that caught my eye. I'll have to reread some parts :D
I continue to enjoy Kvothe's grudge against poetry. My ( ... )
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and, intuitively, that level of detail coupled with Rothfuss' writing style just really gets me
Me too! The fact that it's chemistry and engineering and, like, metaphysical thermodynamics is gravy, but I just like the overall geekiness permeating the whole thing. I ought to look up Rothfuss to see what his educational background is; I wonder is he studied science/engineering formally, or on his own, or has a really, really good science beta. I mean, nothing he talks about is above what you would learn in a uni physics/chem survey course (or, you know, made up), but the way his characters talk about things feels genuine to me, which a lot of characters-talking-about-science doesn't. Anyway, it's such a joy! I didn't care that the plot seemed to be standing still for huge chunks, because I was so happy to geek out.
It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me ( ... )
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Have you read McGuire's latest book, Discount Armageddon? It's the beginning of a different series, so you might enjoy it more. Also, there are talking mice XD
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I have not read Discount Armageddon though I'd heard about it -- that's the cryptozoologist thing, right? Talking mice sounds promising, actually! XD And I might enjoy something less noirish more. Definitely something for me to keep in mind, so thank you for mentioning it! :)
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Haha, that's actually a very good argument in favor! XD
And I love urban fantasy with fairies, so that is one aspect of the Toby books that does appeal to me (though I have to say a lot of her fairies don't feel inhuman enough to me. The Ludaeig does, and that's why she's my favorite), but I like pseudo-sciencey things, too, so, yeah, I'll definitely give this a try if I come across it!
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... somehow, when just reading the recap of the series's ending is more fulfilling that actually reading the books, I feel genuinely disappointed.
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So very much agreed! (And I'm pretty impressed that this relationship exists in a YA series.)
In retrospect, I think the first two books are the best, and it starts getting kind of unwieldy and crowded after that. I liked Leslie a lot, too -- I think she's my favorite after Iri and Niall. And after that I can't really tell -- Donia is on par with the other principals for me.
You may want to track down the two Iri-Niall-and-Leslie centric short stories, "Old Habits" (it features a bunch of other people, but you can ignore them :P) and "Stopping Time", and maybe "Unexpected Family", for the beginning. And "Merely Mortal" has some very nice Donia moments (and spoilers for the last book, but I'm guessing you're not worried about that :)
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Btw, I totally skipped your Kingkiller impressions because Dasha wants me to read it and I'm trying not to get spoiled:) They are my to-go books on the reading list when I crave a traditional fantasy.
PS. I'm just asking because some time ago you said my posts didn't appear in your friendlist, so please don't feel any pressure to join in or anything. Have you seen my international gift exchange proposal? Just to make sure it was your decision not to join, not lj eating up my posts again (god, it feels so awkward to type this, like I'm asking for a favour *uncomfortable* So I really hope you get it the right way, not the way I think it sounded:)
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I did see the internation gift exchange post :) (fortunately the flist problem, whatever that was, doesn't seem to have come back, though this is actually a good reminder for me to go back and check periodically). It seems like a really neat idea! I'm mulling over for myself whether I think I would find shopping for care package thingies for a person I didn't know well fun or stressful, for myself personally. (I used to enjoy "secret santa" type things, and then I had kids and with them came birthday parties for their friends and endless hours of wandering the toy aisles and asking, "No, but what does your friend like? Does he like Legos? Pokemon? superheroes? cars? How can you not know? What do you talk about?", and shopping for relatives who increasingly have everything, usually in triplicate, and looking for ( ... )
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O.o But why would they need...you know what? Never mind. This, plus There was a bunch of metaphysical revelations that I didn't really care about and have probably mostly forgotten by now is pretty much why I stopped reading these.
It's been a loooong while since I stopped reading the Rachel Morgan series, so forgive my fuzzy memory, but Trent is the vampire (ex-)boyfriend, right? Wasn't he dead for a while? Also, :( about Matalina, as I remember really liking all the faeries, and kind of both looking forward to (to see how it's going to be handled) and not looking forward to (because I like them) Jenks' approaching mortality and what, if anything, is going to be done about it.
Skipping the Wise Man's Fear review, since I'm planning on reading it myself hopefully pretty soon. :)
Nawat was one of my favorite characters in the Trickster duology (which I didn't like very much, tbh), and it was neat to have a story from his POV. ( ... )
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Well, if you do want to know: [witch gynecology] Probably to promote conception? The extra muscles lock after intercourse or something. Also, apparently because male witches have smaller penises. IDK XP Trent is actually the elf guy -- Trenton Kalamack, the city councilor whose dad ran the summer camp where Rachel was cured of her disease. (Kisten is the vampire ex-boyfriend, and he's still dead. :P) I'm pretty sure Rachel/Trent is actually the endgame, because they end up coming into conflict and acquiring additional bonds, and I'm honestly just fine with that, because their interaction is the most interesting thread ( ... )
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Ah, good to know that there's actually a purpose there. Although, lol, I don't think this is quite what Tolkien had in mind when he extolled the values of complete worldbuilding. XD
Trent is actually the elf guy -- Trenton Kalamack
Oh, now I remember him! Yup, it's been a while. XD Rachel/Trent endgame doesn't surprise me, since they've been shipteased since, er, a long time ago. But then again, Rachel gets shipteased with everybody. Sorry to hear about the direction Nick has taken, though, since I actually kinda liked him.
But Jenks, at least, is good for another couple of decades, because that time Rachel turned him big apparently reset his biological clock, so now he's got another 20 years.
Yay! Cop-out or not, he really made the series fun for me, so I'm glad to hear that it looks like he'll be sticking around for a while longer.
I don't know if you've started NotW yet, but I found the beginning kind of slow going, until he got to the University, and then the book really took off for me.Sadly, I ( ... )
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Since the first book, pretty much. And since the trajectory with Rachel and the others is to have them get together over the course of a couple of books and then for the relationship to fail in some dramatic way, it's been pretty clear that the long game with Trent is leading up to something :)
I liked Nick early on, but he's been getting more and more straightforwardly badguy for a while now. Ah well...
And, yeah, I'm happy about the Jenks copout, too, because he is one of the most enjoyable characters in the series.
LOTR was much the same for me the first time I read it
I was stuck in the Shire for months, and then I got to the Council of Elrond and the whole thing really took off for me. So, I can totally understand the beginning of LotR going slow :P
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