Oh dear, I nodded my head off through the whole geekery-indulgent section of your review :P A lot of the things, like engineering and chemistry, don't make me feel excited, but I still LOVE reading about, and, intuitively, that level of detail coupled with Rothfuss' writing style just really gets me. (That's why I keep responding to everything WMF as The Dog that Said Squirrel! Sorry in advance!)
I'm not sure if I would have picked up on Meluan being Kvothe's mother's sister (most likely) without having read some speculation on it, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. I think so, too. It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint it for the longest time. I do think it's very probable.
Same on your speculations about Willem and Sim and the rest - I did not come to the same conclusions, but there's definitely a very interesting sort of steadfastness about Willem that caught my eye. I'll have to reread some parts :D
I continue to enjoy Kvothe's grudge against poetry. My brain explodes every time this is mentioned, tbh, but, perversely, I like it, too, as well as the notion that the subjunctive offends Kvothe :D I use that point to contrast him to myself and Rhaegar, and it's still hilarious.
The way Kvothe then instantly became a ladies man in the mortal realm was also kind of embarrassing. This is the best-worded summary I've seen yet. I still think that, given that it's Kvothe who's telling the story, a lot of it is in his head, which makes perfect sense, because he's got a HUGE ego boost and is essentially a lovelorn teenager. That's not necessarily to be liked, but I find it bearable.
I felt like the fight about the song, when Kvothe ostensibly barely held himself back from calling Denna a whore to her face, came out of nowhere. That it did. Completely weird - and more like a plot/characterization hole than anything else, including the Felurian bit, so the biggest frustration for me.
I'm also a bit >.> regarding Kvothe's execution of the false troupers and subsequent lecture to the townsfolk I agree it's ambiguous, but I think it's a way of highlighting Kvothe's childhood trauma, essentially. he is not rational at all about Edema Ruh, very defensive; he never told anybody about how his troupe was exterminated, I feel this sort of internalized anxiety might answer for some of his actions, including, perhaps, his outburst with Denna, but that ties into the mystic part of the book, Chandrian, Lanre, etc, and thus will not be completely valid for me until I see the resolution, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Somebody called the Adem "Russian ninjas" LOL I love Ademre with a thousand suns, but no. They're clearly further East in spirit, even with my spotty understand of Tao. I'd like to see them explain moderation and balance to Russians, and humility to Russian men, for that matter.
eta: Oh, have to say, the Iron Tree test scene = flawless. And the fact that Spinning Leaf is contasted/referenced in connection to the proper Naming technique throughout is the sort of universalism that I love to find.
Yay, I was so hopping you were still in the mood to talk about this book now that I was finally finished an in a position to do so informedly! :D
and, intuitively, that level of detail coupled with Rothfuss' writing style just really gets me
Me too! The fact that it's chemistry and engineering and, like, metaphysical thermodynamics is gravy, but I just like the overall geekiness permeating the whole thing. I ought to look up Rothfuss to see what his educational background is; I wonder is he studied science/engineering formally, or on his own, or has a really, really good science beta. I mean, nothing he talks about is above what you would learn in a uni physics/chem survey course (or, you know, made up), but the way his characters talk about things feels genuine to me, which a lot of characters-talking-about-science doesn't. Anyway, it's such a joy! I didn't care that the plot seemed to be standing still for huge chunks, because I was so happy to geek out.
It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint it for the longest time. I do think it's very probable.
I think it was being hinted at/set up as early as the first book, with that song Kvothe picks up from some kids, "In a box, no key or locks/Lockless keeps her husband's rocks" -- the one where his mother had the "that's not nice" talk with him?
Same on your speculations about Willem and Sim and the rest - I did not come to the same conclusions, but there's definitely a very interesting sort of steadfastness about Willem that caught my eye. I'll have to reread some parts :D
Oh, do let me know what conclusions you come to on rereading, if you do! I feel like there are enough bits there that, if they're not hinting at Wi--> Sim and Alveron/Stapes, I'm really not sure what they're doing. On the other hand, Kvothe notices Rand lighting up when Meluan comes in, after he returns from Ademre and stuff, so I'm not sure what to make of that. He's bi and really fell for her? Happy threesome? He's just that good an actor (good enough to fool Kvothe)? She's a happy beard and he really likes her as a person? I'm giving this entirely too much thought, I realize, but it just struck me as really odd, a loose end. And I do wonder if Wil --> Sim is all in my head or if we'll see more of it. Homosexuality certainly exists in the NotW world (there's even a name for it), and Wil is not off chasing girls or pining for them, unlike Sim and Kvothe, and he is so gentle with Simmon, while teasing Kvothe. So, yeah...
My brain explodes every time this is mentioned, tbh, but, perversely, I like it, too, as well as the notion that the subjunctive offends Kvothe :D
I find it sort of brain-breaking, too, and therefore hilarious. Like, to me, songs are just poetry set to music, and poetry-lite at that (I realize Kvothe would be deeply offended by this belief), so whenever he brings up his poetry grudge, I'm like, Kvothe, how does that make any sense?
Also, between Kvothe's poetry grudge and Vashet repeatedly mentioning her "poet king", I'm half convinced the titular kingkilling will be over an argument over the relative virtues of poetry and music... :P
part 2 (of 3)hamsterwomanAugust 30 2012, 17:32:24 UTC
I still think that, given that it's Kvothe who's telling the story, a lot of it is in his head, which makes perfect sense, because he's got a HUGE ego boost and is essentially a lovelorn teenager. That's not necessarily to be liked, but I find it bearable.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of it like that... I guess I can sort of see that as an explanation for some part (in the depth of my Dragaera obsession, I'm happy to ascribe pretty much anything to unreliable narrator, heh), and while I'm still not sure what this would imply about present-day-Kvothe-the-narrator (and he is pretty open about holding his younger self up for ridicule in other cases, so, maybe that), I could sort of see it? Except the conversation with Fela and Sim at the end, because, unless Kvothe-the-narrator just made that up, or is misremembering it through the haze of an ego boost... Heh, maybe that was that. Maybe the actual conversation went like, Fela: "[What's her name, the Modegan girl] really wishes you'd make a pass at her, Kvothe", and he filled in all the rest on his own... I dunno.
Maybe I'll take it a step further and just conclude that Kvothe is making up ALL of his successes with women out of whole cloth, because he never did get anywhere with Denna and at least wants to be remembered as a suave lover of women without ever having been one in truth. And also he remembers nothing of his time with Felurian except going after her, the after-flash of her Name, and his conversation with the Cthaeh (and flashes of her comforting him), so he had to make up stories to fill that whole interlude because he didn't want to admit it, and that's the explanation for the rhyming lines and the lack of concrete feeling in those scenes and why his ruse to get away from her (the song) feels unrealistic. Maybe he's even intentionally making the whole thing kind of ridiculous, for the lulz. Or maybe Kvothe is just not as good a fabulist as Rothfuss is :P (LOL, the more I proceed down this path, the more I like this idea XP).
agree it's ambiguous, but I think it's a way of highlighting Kvothe's childhood trauma, essentially. he is not rational at all about Edema Ruh, very defensive; he never told anybody about how his troupe was exterminated,
Yeah, I could understand his actions with the false troupers, given Kvothe's past trauma. Edema Ruh are definitely his big button -- I think in just about every case, that's what gets him to forget about self-preservation and mouth off to people he would normally be trying to impress / behave prudently with. I don't think his actions with the troupe make him a good person, but I also don't think they're supposed to necessarily. Like, it could be part of the darkness Vashet, Shehyn et al see in him. He certianly thinks he did the right thing, but, well, he would.
I'm still not really sure what Rothfuss is doing setting up Kvothe as defender of womenfolk or whatever. There was that bit when he was drugged and de-inhibited when a lot of attention was drawn to the fact that he could not even consider ravishing Fela (and this was when he was not even entirely sure that one could not eat a stone), and I don't really know what that's supposed to be about or why it needed highlighting. And of course the thing with the kidnapped girls, and his repeated rescues or would-be-rescues of Denna (which, of course, are partly driven by love) and incidental rescues of other women. I am totally willing to believe that Kvothe sees himself as a romantic hero (or would really like to). I'm just wondering how Rothfuss sees him...
and the last onehamsterwomanAugust 30 2012, 17:32:43 UTC
I feel this sort of internalized anxiety might answer for some of his actions, including, perhaps, his outburst with Denna
I was trying to figure out/justify this to myself, and I'm still not sure. On the one hand, Kvothe has been attempting to study the Chandrian and collect information on them methodically and without freaking out due to the trauma. On the other hand, Kvothe is really good at compartamentalization (compartamentalization is kind of a professional skill for a sympathist XP), so maybe that's why he can hold it together enough for research, while the sudden juxtaposition of Chandrian-related legend and singing (which is what got his parents killed) and a person he loves could've broken through the compartamentalization.
On yet a third hand, and why that scene doesn't work for me, I could see Kvothe freaking out due to the surprise of Denna + singing + Chandrian legend, but I have a hard time understanding why his freak-out would take *that* particular form -- UR DOiN IT RONG and nearly insulting the woman he loves and holds on a pedestal? It just seems out of character to me... I could more readily see him going catatonic or starting to babble or, dunno, pretty much anything else.
I'd like to see them explain moderation and balance to Russians, and humility to Russian men, for that matter.
Heh, well, I do feel the Adem women would fare well viz galloping horses and burning huts, but other than that, yeah XP I guess blond + outwardly morose (/inwardly complicated) + living in some inhospitable location (as Isa said) = Russian to some people?
Oh, have to say, the Iron Tree test scene = flawless. And the fact that Spinning Leaf is contasted/referenced in connection to the proper Naming technique throughout is the sort of universalism that I love to find.
Yes! I had been wondering at the detour to Ademre, and I still assume it's mostly so that Kvothe could obtain Caesura (and the name he got, whatever it means), but the way everything came together for the sword tree test scene was magnificent and everything made sense in retrospect. And I loved Kvothe applying and expanding his arsenal of mental tricks to new venues -- Heart of Stone to hold himself apart from Felurian's magic, Spinning Leaf for both his Lethani experiments and Naming (also, I totally think of Airbending whenever it comes up, possibly because I was watching the early Korra episodes while reading about it).
Re: here we go 1mauvais_pliSeptember 2 2012, 19:44:05 UTC
I think it's totally neat that Rothfuss has genuine education in the field! However, I do have some doubts as to what's in this head generally and more people-wise, you know. Like you say:
I'm still not really sure what Rothfuss is doing setting up Kvothe as defender of womenfolk or whatever. I am totally willing to believe that Kvothe sees himself as a romantic hero (or would really like to). I'm just wondering how Rothfuss sees him...
I would really like to know. He has a popular blog and some of the entries are supernice and some decidedly aren't. I haven't actually gone and investigated thoroughly, so I can't be 100% sure if he has Nice Guy Syndrome or it's just severe Tolkien fanatic brain damage. (If you don't want to read the whole, he compared The Hobbit movie to a hypothetical high school geek-girl crush who you meet years later dancing striptease.)
On the other hand, I'm quite happy interpreting the book however I see fit without making a social issue out of it, and it works for me.
On the other hand, Kvothe notices Rand lighting up when Meluan comes in...
I wasn't paying thorough attention, to be honest, because I was eager for Kvothe to get the hell out of there, because it was clear he wasn't getting much in the way of info and on the way back, anyway. Maybe the reason I didn't get any subtext feeling was because I didn't care for either Rand or Meluan enough; though Stapes' level of devotion wouldn't seem surprising to me in a lot of set-ups. Perhaps not threesome, because Meluan didn't seem the type, but Rand having his cake and eating it too would be perfectly in character. Genuine affection for Meluan is not out of the question either - she's young, beautiful, smart, and well-suited socially, which eliminates any friction or much bitter powerplay. Add to that the rigid social conventions of Vintas and I'm sure navigating around each other is relatively easy (for Stapes and Meluan, or perhaps Stapes alone is enough).
I'll get back to you on Wil and Sim - after I decide if I'm buying an ereader, because I don't think I'll handle rereading on my phone. Speaking of, I've switched to choosing ereaders since I ran myself into a wall again regarding smartphones, and your recent deliberations about Kindle are v. helpful, and your posts from the holidays good proof that LJ is doable from an ereader.
Like, to me, songs are just poetry set to music, and poetry-lite at that (I realize Kvothe would be deeply offended by this belief), so whenever he brings up his poetry grudge, I'm like, Kvothe, how does that make any sense?
I suppose he considers himself too "action" for poetry - even though he concedes that Sim was cool for having a poetic streak, it's still not his "league" somehow. Obviously he can't imaging reciting poetry to an audience, really, it doesn't fit into his idea of a show - which must be either dialogue or song; the drama of a poem seems dry to him, I suppose, dusty, nerdy, and dated, perhaps? Seeing as the purpose of a song is to captivate the listener, to be universal - he puts the universality of poetry into question because it's more high-brow, and "stupid" high-brow at that? Idk, it's still hilarious.
Re: here we go 2mauvais_pliSeptember 2 2012, 19:44:33 UTC
Also, between Kvothe's poetry grudge and Vashet repeatedly mentioning her "poet king", I'm half convinced the titular kingkilling will be over an argument over the relative virtues of poetry and music... :P
That would be genius. I'm holding my breath for a completely un-heroic resolution, very Kvothe in style and therefore extremely rumour-worhty, blown completely out of proportion, but essentially uncomplicated. I think the only thing that makes me like this book even more (after the endless geekery and stuff) is the understanding that it is a story about a self-made story. I feel like, from the very beginning, Kvothe is setting himself up, he's setting out to make himself a legend (at least I would put the conscious realization of that at entering University, jumping off a roof - definitely). I ranted about it extensively here in my original WMF post.
However, the Bast-sent rogues scene made me really question his prowess as a hero: I suppose it was meant to be that way, a come-off-the-high sort of feeling (if I'm not mistaken, that scene and the Ademre crescendo were were close together). There might be a tie between the story being in Kvothe's head, where also the "magic" (at least, Naming, assuming sympathy is better rooted) and the Lethani (for lack of a better word encompassing the ability to apply physical strength and other skills to real life) reside. The mask becomes the face and all that. On the other hand, I am now starting to doubt how clearly I saw that scene, because I don't remember any indications that Kvothe was willingly getting beat up not to cause any more rumours, but I might have easily overlooked them.
it could be part of the darkness Vashet, Shehyn et al see in him. The Edema Ruh aspect is somewhat dark, I think. It lends itself easily to romanticization and moral fabl'ing and all, but essentially it's a loose network society with internal coded rules (not dissimilar to terrorists, for that matter), which in a lot of contexts might be "bit not good", using good Dr Watson. Plus, as was mentioned in the post you linked to regarding WFM reread, Kvothe's default active philosophy seems close to the Amyr ends-justify-means credo, and the Spinning Leaf (read: "virtuous"/neutral good) turns on whenever it turns on, i.e. sporadically. (I totally hear you on the airbending + Spinning Leaf! :D)
I could see Kvothe freaking out due to the surprise of Denna + singing + Chandrian legend, but I have a hard time understanding why his freak-out would take *that* particular form -- UR DOiN IT RONG and nearly insulting the woman he loves and holds on a pedestal
Yeah, doesn't tie together for me either. I mostly read him getting very angry that he can't tell Denna to stop/tell her why, and then exploding with whatever, but I don't really understand why he wouldn't tell her at this point, even if he had an all-consuming superstition, because it would make more sense for Kvothe to run his mouth off than insult Denna not intending to ever tell her why.
Heh, well, I do feel the Adem women would fare well viz galloping horses and burning huts, but other than that, yeah XP I guess blond + outwardly morose (/inwardly complicated) + living in some inhospitable location (as Isa said) = Russian to some people?
True on the first! blonde + morose + tough landscape would definitely spell Nordic for me if I wasn't actually reading it. As it is, I think it's more Caucasian/Basque to me (there is a theory the basque language's closest relation is to be found on Caucasus, incidentally): small, tight-knit, isolated highlander community with clear social structure and clear devision of labour. Excellent fighters, to boot.
let's see if this fits in 2...hamsterwomanSeptember 2 2012, 23:08:17 UTC
However, I do have some doubts as to what's in this head generally and more people-wise, you know.
Yes... although I seem to recall that he went on to study, like, analytic psychology or something after ChemE, so I would expect him to be sort of OK in the way people work department?
I've come across his blog a couple of times and in those entries he seemed like a total sweetheart (his reaction to finding Bast/Kvothe fanfic -- after going looking for it (though I was taken aback by the percentage of "ew, fanfic!" reactions in the comments), and helping our a fan). Thank you for the links to the other ones, btw! The copper knife was really cool, and his post about Kvothe in fantasy Avengers was hilarious, especially the fact that he apparently ships Kvothe/Hermione. The "aren't" link was very interesting -- I actually got a huge kick out of watching the trippy Hobbit adaptation and reading the story behind it. As for his actual point... hm, yeah :/ There are quite a few people on my flist opposed to the Hobbit expansion (though, granted, that came with the news of a third movie, not the movie/two-movie thing that Rothfuss is objecting to), and my best friend hated the very idea of the LotR movies (and only saw them years and years later, after which she conceded that they were not so bad), and I have some of my own issues with the movies (though, of course, I vew them as interpretations, not something that's supposed to supplant the book, so it doesn't bother me), but the geeky girl high school crush turned stripper thing is both overblown and unfortunate... and also not a very good analogy anyway. (Also, I should know better than to read comments... I don't know who is annoying me more, the "Tolkien was an awful writer" crowd, or the "but LotR isn't fantasy, it's ~mythology~" crowd... *sigh*). That said, I think that particular post is more severe Tolkien fanatic brain damage (hee!), but, it would sadly not surprise me if Rothfuss were to display some Nice Guyness, because I do detect that in Kvothe, and that bothers me a good deal more than his posturing, arrogance, or whatever else.
On the other hand, I'm quite happy interpreting the book however I see fit without making a social issue out of it, and it works for me.
Ditto. Fortunately, there are layers of narration in NotW that make it pretty easy to ignore the real-world author entirely, in most cases :)
Maybe the reason I didn't get any subtext feeling was because I didn't care for either Rand or Meluan enough; though Stapes' level of devotion wouldn't seem surprising to me in a lot of set-ups.
I didn't care about Meluan, but I did like Rand a lot -- proud, competent, and ruthless, he is exactly my type. I probably would've just ascribed Stapes's devotion to a platonic master/servant relationship if not for Rand's odd refusal to marry earlier in life and his odd response to Kvothe's guess that he loved Meluan in truth.
Perhaps not threesome, because Meluan didn't seem the type, but Rand having his cake and eating it too would be perfectly in character.
Yeah, probably not threesome, because you're right about Meluan, but Rand figuring out a way to have both would indeed be in character.
and your recent deliberations about Kindle are v. helpful, and your posts from the holidays good proof that LJ is doable from an ereader
Oh, good! LJ is doable from an eReader but painful -- but infnitely better than no LJ at all. Browsing is OK, posting is not too bad, comments are doable but require a fair bit of effort. Also, I think the combination I got of keyboard + 3G that I got is still available, but you have to go looking for it on Amazon's website -- AFAIK, the now mainstream Kindle Touch with 3G doesn't let you browse the web beyond going to Amazon's website to buy books and Wikipedia (
it did! (after I trimmed it just a bit :)hamsterwomanSeptember 2 2012, 23:09:43 UTC
Obviously he can't imaging reciting poetry to an audience, really, it doesn't fit into his idea of a show - which must be either dialogue or song
That makes sense... in a Kvothe sort of way. But, yeah, still hilarious XP
I'm holding my breath for a completely un-heroic resolution, very Kvothe in style and therefore extremely rumour-worhty, blown completely out of proportion
I would be very much in favor of that as well!
I feel like, from the very beginning, Kvothe is setting himself up, he's setting out to make himself a legend (at least I would put the conscious realization of that at entering University
Absolutely agreed... (But I also think that this, plus the way the story is narrated, makes it kind of difficult to judge the series as it goes along. I feel like I really have to reserve judgement until I've seen how the whole thing ends... which is not normally a consideration for me for WIP series that grow more organically, like ASOIAF.)
On the other hand, I am now starting to doubt how clearly I saw that scene, because I don't remember any indications that Kvothe was willingly getting beat up not to cause any more rumours
I didn't get that sense, either. My take was, he started fighting back under the influence of the story-Ademre high, and then reality caught up with him -- I'm sure the Ketan and so on is something that leaves you if you don't practice -- and as soon as he recollected that he wasn't practicing in Ademre but rather Kote in his inn, everything sort of came crashing down -- because it definitely does look like mental space is paramount when it comes to Adem fighting techniques, and Kote is in a bad place. Cthaeh aside, there's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and Kvothe/Kote seems utterly convinced that a) his life is over and b) everything he tries will lead to disaster. (Of course, if what Bast believes about the Cthaeh is true, then Kvothe is, in a way, right in his assessment.)
The Edema Ruh aspect is somewhat dark, I think. It lends itself easily to romanticization and moral fabl'ing and all, but essentially it's a loose network society with internal coded rules
That's really interesting, and I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. In Kvothe's world it's pretty much axiomatic that anyone who has anything bad to say about the Edema Ruh is a bad person, or at least unfortunately bigoted... but we don't actually see any Edema Ruh outside of Kvothe's happy childhood memory of his parents' troupe, and Kvothe-told stories in which the Edema Ruh are always good guys. Hmm... Now I'm kind of hoping we'll see some subversion of that (though I would fully expect Kvothe to try to justify whatever actions in some manner). The problem is, I guess, that Kvothe is such a conscious storyteller, and telling his story from a clear endpoint, and also knows exactly what he's doing -- it's much harder, I'd think, to subvert a first person narration with those constraints...
but I don't really understand why he wouldn't tell her at this point, even if he had an all-consuming superstition, because it would make more sense for Kvothe to run his mouth off than insult Denna not intending to ever tell her why
Yes... I can even sort of accept that he can't tell her the truth about the Chandrian slaughtering his family and all that, but she's already somewhat involved in that wedding where everybody got killed, and I do think she would be likely to believe him after everything they've been through together, seeing him in a state.
The whole fight just seemed manufactured, which stuck out in a book where, for the most part, actions and consequences flowed together pretty well.
blonde + morose + tough landscape would definitely spell Nordic for me if I wasn't actually reading it. As it is, I think it's more Caucasian/Basque to me (there is a theory the basque language's closest relation is to be found on Caucasus, incidentally
Yep, Nordic to me, too, based on just those factors. I hadn't thought of either Caucasian or Basque because my mind went straight to "blonde Tibetans". I think I remember hearing about the relation of Basque to the Caucasian languages (maybe from you though) -- so neat how these things work!
I think that particular post is more severe Tolkien fanatic brain damage (hee!)
It's terrible affliction. I'm sure there are support groups. (lol) For the record, I view the movies exactly as you do - can't get enough of them, don't think they're accurate in the nth degree. So, yeah, we'll live and see.
though I was taken aback by the percentage of "ew, fanfic!" reactions in the comments
Maybe it's the fans of 'classic' fantasy/sci-fi? It's really hard but very fascinating trying to determine the kind of readership an author gets.
Re: ereader: I think that's a problem for the 3G model only, there is a Kindle Touch Wifi that seems to be working fine this side of the world, judging by people's reviews. I am, at the moment, feeling increasingly daring and wanting to try working the touchscreen (there's only one button! wah), since reviews say the multitouch is fast and nice, but I wanted to ask you again, based on your experience, how user-friendly is the keyboard? (I found a different brand model with a keyboard, though the keys on it look more like regular keyboard keys not round buttons like on Kindle - I wonder if there is really any difference.. And I do want an eInk/ePaper gadget, I feel my eyes will thank me). Anyway, if you can tell me anything about how soft/rigid the keys are, do you type with thumbs only or what, I'd be grateful, since I can't really get to touch either (the other brand is relatively non-mainstream, big stores don't carry it). Sorry for hijacking the discussion, too.
I feel like I really have to reserve judgement until I've seen how the whole thing ends... which is not normally a consideration for me for WIP series that grow more organically, like ASOIAF.
Exactly my feeling, as well. And I think because I enjoy the journey/geekery, I am disposed to feel optimistic about the kind of delivery Rothfuss has in store.
Cthaeh aside, there's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and Kvothe/Kote seems utterly convinced that a) his life is over and b) everything he tries will lead to disaster.
Absolutely. Personally, I am of the Chronicler's opinion; I have a hard time believing in any sort of butterfly effect scheme when presented as such a black-and-white notion. It might be that my mind simply boggles...
Now I'm kind of hoping we'll see some subversion of that (though I would fully expect Kvothe to try to justify whatever actions in some manner)
It would be interesting, yes. I think it's enough to suppose that the Edema Ruh will be somehow tied in into the wider mythology explanation if Kvother ever does find out whatever there is to find out about the Chandrian/Amyr and the rest.
The whole fight just seemed manufactured, which stuck out in a book where, for the most part, actions and consequences flowed together pretty well.
Yes, this is what's worrying, especially in connection with Rothfuss potential Nice Guy-ness. There was another instance, in that conversation when Kvothe is complaining to Fela and Sim, and says "She confuses me like no other thing in the world, <> I hate not understanding a thing", - while at the end of NotW he is perfectly capable of explaining her to Sim when the latter calls her cruel etc. The shared understanding of where they come from and the need for independence, the likeness of yourself seen in the other is what made them like each other in the first place, I always found, and now.. The dynamic between them is not much changed. Apparently, Kvothe's libido has been ~awoken, Denna is so ~confusing. Warning bells everywhere, tbh, and, again, quite OOC for Kvothe. It's like Rothfuss doesn't know where he's going with those two, and that's translating into really awkward handling of Denna on the page. Again, sometimes. The scene where Denna is consoling that other girl in a tavern and Kvothe is following her was rather good. Denna was the right kinds of cruel there :P
re: eReaderhamsterwomanSeptember 4 2012, 15:49:58 UTC
You might be right about the web-browsing on Touch being different with 3G or WiFi... I will say that all my web-browsing experience is with 3G, as I never bothered to configure the WiFi anywhere but at home, as the 3G kicks in with much less hassle. (Also around here the WiFi networks one encounters while traveling all tend to be locked, so WiFi wouldn't do me much good. Of course, Whispernet for book buying works pretty much wherever, so that's not a concern, just using it as a smartphone-substitute for browsing.)
how user-friendly is the keyboard?
I like the keyboard! The round keys look a little weird but feel nice, and I like that they're spaced pretty far apart -- I like the kb on my texting phone, and it's very well designed with slopes and grooves and stuff, but I still constantly have the feeling that I'm pressing the wrong key even when I'm not because it's so crowded. I like keys you can really feel when you depress them, and the Kindle has those. I wouldn't want to type a thesis on it, but for entering in urls and typing 3-line comments, it's pretty spiffy, I'd say.
I type on it by holding it with my left as I would when reading and hunt-and-pecking with my right index finger. I generally never learned the thumb-texting thing so I wouldn't naturally try it, but I tried it out just now, and it feels awkward to me on the Kindle, because the keyboard is way at the bottom and when you hold it like that it feels top-heavy, like it's about to slip out of your hands.
And I do want an eInk/ePaper gadget, I feel my eyes will thank me
Yeah, I was really happy with this aspect, because there really is no glare and it feels no different than reading a book once your brain adopts the different page-turning motion.
And hijack away! My f-list was really instrumental in helping me choose an eReader last year, so the least I could do is carry that on :)
For the record, I view the movies exactly as you do - can't get enough of them, don't think they're accurate in the nth degree
Yep. I'll happily watch ten movies worth of The Hobbit if they were to make them, basking in the Middle-Earth sets and gleaning the bits I like while ignoring anything else. I can sort of understand why people are upset if/when the adaptations are not more faithful, but unless it's an outright perversion of the story, gimme more! (I watched the Bakshi LotR, too, and even liked it in bits.)
Maybe it's the fans of 'classic' fantasy/sci-fi? It's really hard but very fascinating trying to determine the kind of readership an author gets.
That's a very plausible point! I could see NotW attracting both the oldschool LotR crowd (due to the depth of worldbuilding) and the weaned-on-GRRM's-fic-hatin'-ways crowd (due to sheer heft... and masochism of the "when is the next book coming out?" variety, I suppose), which might account for the "ew, fanfic!" thing. Not just in his blog's comments, either. I was poking around on FFN, and there are a couple of Kvothe/Bast stories there, and like half the comments are "it was a good story except for the icky slash! I will read more if you take out the slash next time". I dunno, maybe this is common for FFN, I don't go there very often, but bit of a cultural shock, that.
I am of the Chronicler's opinion; I have a hard time believing in any sort of butterfly effect scheme when presented as such a black-and-white notion
I admit, I lol'd at "butterfly effect" in relation to the Cthaeh :D
I agree with you (and the Chronicler) that it feels silly to accept Bast's superstitions at face value (also, Kvothe is plenty capable of screwing up his own life, tyvm). Besides which, as the Chronicler illustrates, even if somehow true, it's not in any way a useful belief, so why would one worry about it.
especially in connection with Rothfuss potential Nice Guy-ness
I meant to say on the subject of that that while Kvothe avoids being a Nice Guy, it reads almost like someone (older!Kvothe or Rothfuss) feels like he ought to get a medal for it, and that's the part that I find the most disconcerting.
"She confuses me like no other thing in the world, <> I hate not understanding a thing", -
Yes -- I'm not sure it would've stood out to me as it did if I hadn't read your review before I got to that part, but I noticed that, too; it really seems like artificial tension being injected into the Kvothe-and-Denna story -- and it wouldn't surprise me if, as you say, Rothfuss didn't know what to do with them. Kvothe's libido being ~awoken is a good in-universe explanation, though!
The scene where Denna is consoling that other girl in a tavern and Kvothe is following her was rather good. Denna was the right kinds of cruel there
Yes, I liked that scene also. Or, at least, I liked Denna in that scene. The scene itself still felt a bit weirdly inserted. As far as character arc infodumps go, it was a pretty elegant one? But still felt kind of infodumpy. There are limitations to a first-person narrator, of course, but it still feels awkward when you have to have a scene of a character overhearing another character talking to a bit player who never appears again in order to learn something about their past. But I did like Denna in that scene.
I'm not sure if I would have picked up on Meluan being Kvothe's mother's sister (most likely) without having read some speculation on it, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. I think so, too. It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint it for the longest time. I do think it's very probable.
Same on your speculations about Willem and Sim and the rest - I did not come to the same conclusions, but there's definitely a very interesting sort of steadfastness about Willem that caught my eye. I'll have to reread some parts :D
I continue to enjoy Kvothe's grudge against poetry. My brain explodes every time this is mentioned, tbh, but, perversely, I like it, too, as well as the notion that the subjunctive offends Kvothe :D I use that point to contrast him to myself and Rhaegar, and it's still hilarious.
The way Kvothe then instantly became a ladies man in the mortal realm was also kind of embarrassing.
This is the best-worded summary I've seen yet. I still think that, given that it's Kvothe who's telling the story, a lot of it is in his head, which makes perfect sense, because he's got a HUGE ego boost and is essentially a lovelorn teenager. That's not necessarily to be liked, but I find it bearable.
I felt like the fight about the song, when Kvothe ostensibly barely held himself back from calling Denna a whore to her face, came out of nowhere.
That it did. Completely weird - and more like a plot/characterization hole than anything else, including the Felurian bit, so the biggest frustration for me.
I'm also a bit >.> regarding Kvothe's execution of the false troupers and subsequent lecture to the townsfolk
I agree it's ambiguous, but I think it's a way of highlighting Kvothe's childhood trauma, essentially. he is not rational at all about Edema Ruh, very defensive; he never told anybody about how his troupe was exterminated, I feel this sort of internalized anxiety might answer for some of his actions, including, perhaps, his outburst with Denna, but that ties into the mystic part of the book, Chandrian, Lanre, etc, and thus will not be completely valid for me until I see the resolution, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Somebody called the Adem "Russian ninjas"
LOL I love Ademre with a thousand suns, but no. They're clearly further East in spirit, even with my spotty understand of Tao. I'd like to see them explain moderation and balance to Russians, and humility to Russian men, for that matter.
eta: Oh, have to say, the Iron Tree test scene = flawless. And the fact that Spinning Leaf is contasted/referenced in connection to the proper Naming technique throughout is the sort of universalism that I love to find.
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and, intuitively, that level of detail coupled with Rothfuss' writing style just really gets me
Me too! The fact that it's chemistry and engineering and, like, metaphysical thermodynamics is gravy, but I just like the overall geekiness permeating the whole thing. I ought to look up Rothfuss to see what his educational background is; I wonder is he studied science/engineering formally, or on his own, or has a really, really good science beta. I mean, nothing he talks about is above what you would learn in a uni physics/chem survey course (or, you know, made up), but the way his characters talk about things feels genuine to me, which a lot of characters-talking-about-science doesn't. Anyway, it's such a joy! I didn't care that the plot seemed to be standing still for huge chunks, because I was so happy to geek out.
It was weird, I was sure some backstory mystery conclusion was pushed at me, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint it for the longest time. I do think it's very probable.
I think it was being hinted at/set up as early as the first book, with that song Kvothe picks up from some kids, "In a box, no key or locks/Lockless keeps her husband's rocks" -- the one where his mother had the "that's not nice" talk with him?
Same on your speculations about Willem and Sim and the rest - I did not come to the same conclusions, but there's definitely a very interesting sort of steadfastness about Willem that caught my eye. I'll have to reread some parts :D
Oh, do let me know what conclusions you come to on rereading, if you do! I feel like there are enough bits there that, if they're not hinting at Wi--> Sim and Alveron/Stapes, I'm really not sure what they're doing. On the other hand, Kvothe notices Rand lighting up when Meluan comes in, after he returns from Ademre and stuff, so I'm not sure what to make of that. He's bi and really fell for her? Happy threesome? He's just that good an actor (good enough to fool Kvothe)? She's a happy beard and he really likes her as a person? I'm giving this entirely too much thought, I realize, but it just struck me as really odd, a loose end. And I do wonder if Wil --> Sim is all in my head or if we'll see more of it. Homosexuality certainly exists in the NotW world (there's even a name for it), and Wil is not off chasing girls or pining for them, unlike Sim and Kvothe, and he is so gentle with Simmon, while teasing Kvothe. So, yeah...
My brain explodes every time this is mentioned, tbh, but, perversely, I like it, too, as well as the notion that the subjunctive offends Kvothe :D
I find it sort of brain-breaking, too, and therefore hilarious. Like, to me, songs are just poetry set to music, and poetry-lite at that (I realize Kvothe would be deeply offended by this belief), so whenever he brings up his poetry grudge, I'm like, Kvothe, how does that make any sense?
Also, between Kvothe's poetry grudge and Vashet repeatedly mentioning her "poet king", I'm half convinced the titular kingkilling will be over an argument over the relative virtues of poetry and music... :P
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Hmm, I hadn't thought of it like that... I guess I can sort of see that as an explanation for some part (in the depth of my Dragaera obsession, I'm happy to ascribe pretty much anything to unreliable narrator, heh), and while I'm still not sure what this would imply about present-day-Kvothe-the-narrator (and he is pretty open about holding his younger self up for ridicule in other cases, so, maybe that), I could sort of see it? Except the conversation with Fela and Sim at the end, because, unless Kvothe-the-narrator just made that up, or is misremembering it through the haze of an ego boost... Heh, maybe that was that. Maybe the actual conversation went like, Fela: "[What's her name, the Modegan girl] really wishes you'd make a pass at her, Kvothe", and he filled in all the rest on his own... I dunno.
Maybe I'll take it a step further and just conclude that Kvothe is making up ALL of his successes with women out of whole cloth, because he never did get anywhere with Denna and at least wants to be remembered as a suave lover of women without ever having been one in truth. And also he remembers nothing of his time with Felurian except going after her, the after-flash of her Name, and his conversation with the Cthaeh (and flashes of her comforting him), so he had to make up stories to fill that whole interlude because he didn't want to admit it, and that's the explanation for the rhyming lines and the lack of concrete feeling in those scenes and why his ruse to get away from her (the song) feels unrealistic. Maybe he's even intentionally making the whole thing kind of ridiculous, for the lulz. Or maybe Kvothe is just not as good a fabulist as Rothfuss is :P (LOL, the more I proceed down this path, the more I like this idea XP).
agree it's ambiguous, but I think it's a way of highlighting Kvothe's childhood trauma, essentially. he is not rational at all about Edema Ruh, very defensive; he never told anybody about how his troupe was exterminated,
Yeah, I could understand his actions with the false troupers, given Kvothe's past trauma. Edema Ruh are definitely his big button -- I think in just about every case, that's what gets him to forget about self-preservation and mouth off to people he would normally be trying to impress / behave prudently with. I don't think his actions with the troupe make him a good person, but I also don't think they're supposed to necessarily. Like, it could be part of the darkness Vashet, Shehyn et al see in him. He certianly thinks he did the right thing, but, well, he would.
I'm still not really sure what Rothfuss is doing setting up Kvothe as defender of womenfolk or whatever. There was that bit when he was drugged and de-inhibited when a lot of attention was drawn to the fact that he could not even consider ravishing Fela (and this was when he was not even entirely sure that one could not eat a stone), and I don't really know what that's supposed to be about or why it needed highlighting. And of course the thing with the kidnapped girls, and his repeated rescues or would-be-rescues of Denna (which, of course, are partly driven by love) and incidental rescues of other women. I am totally willing to believe that Kvothe sees himself as a romantic hero (or would really like to). I'm just wondering how Rothfuss sees him...
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I was trying to figure out/justify this to myself, and I'm still not sure. On the one hand, Kvothe has been attempting to study the Chandrian and collect information on them methodically and without freaking out due to the trauma. On the other hand, Kvothe is really good at compartamentalization (compartamentalization is kind of a professional skill for a sympathist XP), so maybe that's why he can hold it together enough for research, while the sudden juxtaposition of Chandrian-related legend and singing (which is what got his parents killed) and a person he loves could've broken through the compartamentalization.
On yet a third hand, and why that scene doesn't work for me, I could see Kvothe freaking out due to the surprise of Denna + singing + Chandrian legend, but I have a hard time understanding why his freak-out would take *that* particular form -- UR DOiN IT RONG and nearly insulting the woman he loves and holds on a pedestal? It just seems out of character to me... I could more readily see him going catatonic or starting to babble or, dunno, pretty much anything else.
I'd like to see them explain moderation and balance to Russians, and humility to Russian men, for that matter.
Heh, well, I do feel the Adem women would fare well viz galloping horses and burning huts, but other than that, yeah XP I guess blond + outwardly morose (/inwardly complicated) + living in some inhospitable location (as Isa said) = Russian to some people?
Oh, have to say, the Iron Tree test scene = flawless. And the fact that Spinning Leaf is contasted/referenced in connection to the proper Naming technique throughout is the sort of universalism that I love to find.
Yes! I had been wondering at the detour to Ademre, and I still assume it's mostly so that Kvothe could obtain Caesura (and the name he got, whatever it means), but the way everything came together for the sword tree test scene was magnificent and everything made sense in retrospect. And I loved Kvothe applying and expanding his arsenal of mental tricks to new venues -- Heart of Stone to hold himself apart from Felurian's magic, Spinning Leaf for both his Lethani experiments and Naming (also, I totally think of Airbending whenever it comes up, possibly because I was watching the early Korra episodes while reading about it).
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I'm still not really sure what Rothfuss is doing setting up Kvothe as defender of womenfolk or whatever. I am totally willing to believe that Kvothe sees himself as a romantic hero (or would really like to). I'm just wondering how Rothfuss sees him...
I would really like to know. He has a popular blog and some of the entries are super nice and some decidedly aren't. I haven't actually gone and investigated thoroughly, so I can't be 100% sure if he has Nice Guy Syndrome or it's just severe Tolkien fanatic brain damage. (If you don't want to read the whole, he compared The Hobbit movie to a hypothetical high school geek-girl crush who you meet years later dancing striptease.)
On the other hand, I'm quite happy interpreting the book however I see fit without making a social issue out of it, and it works for me.
On the other hand, Kvothe notices Rand lighting up when Meluan comes in...
I wasn't paying thorough attention, to be honest, because I was eager for Kvothe to get the hell out of there, because it was clear he wasn't getting much in the way of info and on the way back, anyway. Maybe the reason I didn't get any subtext feeling was because I didn't care for either Rand or Meluan enough; though Stapes' level of devotion wouldn't seem surprising to me in a lot of set-ups. Perhaps not threesome, because Meluan didn't seem the type, but Rand having his cake and eating it too would be perfectly in character. Genuine affection for Meluan is not out of the question either - she's young, beautiful, smart, and well-suited socially, which eliminates any friction or much bitter powerplay. Add to that the rigid social conventions of Vintas and I'm sure navigating around each other is relatively easy (for Stapes and Meluan, or perhaps Stapes alone is enough).
I'll get back to you on Wil and Sim - after I decide if I'm buying an ereader, because I don't think I'll handle rereading on my phone. Speaking of, I've switched to choosing ereaders since I ran myself into a wall again regarding smartphones, and your recent deliberations about Kindle are v. helpful, and your posts from the holidays good proof that LJ is doable from an ereader.
Like, to me, songs are just poetry set to music, and poetry-lite at that (I realize Kvothe would be deeply offended by this belief), so whenever he brings up his poetry grudge, I'm like, Kvothe, how does that make any sense?
I suppose he considers himself too "action" for poetry - even though he concedes that Sim was cool for having a poetic streak, it's still not his "league" somehow. Obviously he can't imaging reciting poetry to an audience, really, it doesn't fit into his idea of a show - which must be either dialogue or song; the drama of a poem seems dry to him, I suppose, dusty, nerdy, and dated, perhaps? Seeing as the purpose of a song is to captivate the listener, to be universal - he puts the universality of poetry into question because it's more high-brow, and "stupid" high-brow at that? Idk, it's still hilarious.
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That would be genius. I'm holding my breath for a completely un-heroic resolution, very Kvothe in style and therefore extremely rumour-worhty, blown completely out of proportion, but essentially uncomplicated. I think the only thing that makes me like this book even more (after the endless geekery and stuff) is the understanding that it is a story about a self-made story. I feel like, from the very beginning, Kvothe is setting himself up, he's setting out to make himself a legend (at least I would put the conscious realization of that at entering University, jumping off a roof - definitely). I ranted about it extensively here in my original WMF post.
However, the Bast-sent rogues scene made me really question his prowess as a hero: I suppose it was meant to be that way, a come-off-the-high sort of feeling (if I'm not mistaken, that scene and the Ademre crescendo were were close together). There might be a tie between the story being in Kvothe's head, where also the "magic" (at least, Naming, assuming sympathy is better rooted) and the Lethani (for lack of a better word encompassing the ability to apply physical strength and other skills to real life) reside. The mask becomes the face and all that. On the other hand, I am now starting to doubt how clearly I saw that scene, because I don't remember any indications that Kvothe was willingly getting beat up not to cause any more rumours, but I might have easily overlooked them.
it could be part of the darkness Vashet, Shehyn et al see in him.
The Edema Ruh aspect is somewhat dark, I think. It lends itself easily to romanticization and moral fabl'ing and all, but essentially it's a loose network society with internal coded rules (not dissimilar to terrorists, for that matter), which in a lot of contexts might be "bit not good", using good Dr Watson. Plus, as was mentioned in the post you linked to regarding WFM reread, Kvothe's default active philosophy seems close to the Amyr ends-justify-means credo, and the Spinning Leaf (read: "virtuous"/neutral good) turns on whenever it turns on, i.e. sporadically. (I totally hear you on the airbending + Spinning Leaf! :D)
I could see Kvothe freaking out due to the surprise of Denna + singing + Chandrian legend, but I have a hard time understanding why his freak-out would take *that* particular form -- UR DOiN IT RONG and nearly insulting the woman he loves and holds on a pedestal
Yeah, doesn't tie together for me either. I mostly read him getting very angry that he can't tell Denna to stop/tell her why, and then exploding with whatever, but I don't really understand why he wouldn't tell her at this point, even if he had an all-consuming superstition, because it would make more sense for Kvothe to run his mouth off than insult Denna not intending to ever tell her why.
Heh, well, I do feel the Adem women would fare well viz galloping horses and burning huts, but other than that, yeah XP I guess blond + outwardly morose (/inwardly complicated) + living in some inhospitable location (as Isa said) = Russian to some people?
True on the first! blonde + morose + tough landscape would definitely spell Nordic for me if I wasn't actually reading it. As it is, I think it's more Caucasian/Basque to me (there is a theory the basque language's closest relation is to be found on Caucasus, incidentally): small, tight-knit, isolated highlander community with clear social structure and clear devision of labour. Excellent fighters, to boot.
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Yes... although I seem to recall that he went on to study, like, analytic psychology or something after ChemE, so I would expect him to be sort of OK in the way people work department?
I've come across his blog a couple of times and in those entries he seemed like a total sweetheart (his reaction to finding Bast/Kvothe fanfic -- after going looking for it (though I was taken aback by the percentage of "ew, fanfic!" reactions in the comments), and helping our a fan). Thank you for the links to the other ones, btw! The copper knife was really cool, and his post about Kvothe in fantasy Avengers was hilarious, especially the fact that he apparently ships Kvothe/Hermione. The "aren't" link was very interesting -- I actually got a huge kick out of watching the trippy Hobbit adaptation and reading the story behind it. As for his actual point... hm, yeah :/ There are quite a few people on my flist opposed to the Hobbit expansion (though, granted, that came with the news of a third movie, not the movie/two-movie thing that Rothfuss is objecting to), and my best friend hated the very idea of the LotR movies (and only saw them years and years later, after which she conceded that they were not so bad), and I have some of my own issues with the movies (though, of course, I vew them as interpretations, not something that's supposed to supplant the book, so it doesn't bother me), but the geeky girl high school crush turned stripper thing is both overblown and unfortunate... and also not a very good analogy anyway. (Also, I should know better than to read comments... I don't know who is annoying me more, the "Tolkien was an awful writer" crowd, or the "but LotR isn't fantasy, it's ~mythology~" crowd... *sigh*). That said, I think that particular post is more severe Tolkien fanatic brain damage (hee!), but, it would sadly not surprise me if Rothfuss were to display some Nice Guyness, because I do detect that in Kvothe, and that bothers me a good deal more than his posturing, arrogance, or whatever else.
On the other hand, I'm quite happy interpreting the book however I see fit without making a social issue out of it, and it works for me.
Ditto. Fortunately, there are layers of narration in NotW that make it pretty easy to ignore the real-world author entirely, in most cases :)
Maybe the reason I didn't get any subtext feeling was because I didn't care for either Rand or Meluan enough; though Stapes' level of devotion wouldn't seem surprising to me in a lot of set-ups.
I didn't care about Meluan, but I did like Rand a lot -- proud, competent, and ruthless, he is exactly my type. I probably would've just ascribed Stapes's devotion to a platonic master/servant relationship if not for Rand's odd refusal to marry earlier in life and his odd response to Kvothe's guess that he loved Meluan in truth.
Perhaps not threesome, because Meluan didn't seem the type, but Rand having his cake and eating it too would be perfectly in character.
Yeah, probably not threesome, because you're right about Meluan, but Rand figuring out a way to have both would indeed be in character.
and your recent deliberations about Kindle are v. helpful, and your posts from the holidays good proof that LJ is doable from an ereader
Oh, good! LJ is doable from an eReader but painful -- but infnitely better than no LJ at all. Browsing is OK, posting is not too bad, comments are doable but require a fair bit of effort. Also, I think the combination I got of keyboard + 3G that I got is still available, but you have to go looking for it on Amazon's website -- AFAIK, the now mainstream Kindle Touch with 3G doesn't let you browse the web beyond going to Amazon's website to buy books and Wikipedia (
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That makes sense... in a Kvothe sort of way. But, yeah, still hilarious XP
I'm holding my breath for a completely un-heroic resolution, very Kvothe in style and therefore extremely rumour-worhty, blown completely out of proportion
I would be very much in favor of that as well!
I feel like, from the very beginning, Kvothe is setting himself up, he's setting out to make himself a legend (at least I would put the conscious realization of that at entering University
Absolutely agreed... (But I also think that this, plus the way the story is narrated, makes it kind of difficult to judge the series as it goes along. I feel like I really have to reserve judgement until I've seen how the whole thing ends... which is not normally a consideration for me for WIP series that grow more organically, like ASOIAF.)
On the other hand, I am now starting to doubt how clearly I saw that scene, because I don't remember any indications that Kvothe was willingly getting beat up not to cause any more rumours
I didn't get that sense, either. My take was, he started fighting back under the influence of the story-Ademre high, and then reality caught up with him -- I'm sure the Ketan and so on is something that leaves you if you don't practice -- and as soon as he recollected that he wasn't practicing in Ademre but rather Kote in his inn, everything sort of came crashing down -- because it definitely does look like mental space is paramount when it comes to Adem fighting techniques, and Kote is in a bad place. Cthaeh aside, there's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and Kvothe/Kote seems utterly convinced that a) his life is over and b) everything he tries will lead to disaster. (Of course, if what Bast believes about the Cthaeh is true, then Kvothe is, in a way, right in his assessment.)
The Edema Ruh aspect is somewhat dark, I think. It lends itself easily to romanticization and moral fabl'ing and all, but essentially it's a loose network society with internal coded rules
That's really interesting, and I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. In Kvothe's world it's pretty much axiomatic that anyone who has anything bad to say about the Edema Ruh is a bad person, or at least unfortunately bigoted... but we don't actually see any Edema Ruh outside of Kvothe's happy childhood memory of his parents' troupe, and Kvothe-told stories in which the Edema Ruh are always good guys. Hmm... Now I'm kind of hoping we'll see some subversion of that (though I would fully expect Kvothe to try to justify whatever actions in some manner). The problem is, I guess, that Kvothe is such a conscious storyteller, and telling his story from a clear endpoint, and also knows exactly what he's doing -- it's much harder, I'd think, to subvert a first person narration with those constraints...
but I don't really understand why he wouldn't tell her at this point, even if he had an all-consuming superstition, because it would make more sense for Kvothe to run his mouth off than insult Denna not intending to ever tell her why
Yes... I can even sort of accept that he can't tell her the truth about the Chandrian slaughtering his family and all that, but she's already somewhat involved in that wedding where everybody got killed, and I do think she would be likely to believe him after everything they've been through together, seeing him in a state.
The whole fight just seemed manufactured, which stuck out in a book where, for the most part, actions and consequences flowed together pretty well.
blonde + morose + tough landscape would definitely spell Nordic for me if I wasn't actually reading it. As it is, I think it's more Caucasian/Basque to me (there is a theory the basque language's closest relation is to be found on Caucasus, incidentally
Yep, Nordic to me, too, based on just those factors. I hadn't thought of either Caucasian or Basque because my mind went straight to "blonde Tibetans". I think I remember hearing about the relation of Basque to the Caucasian languages (maybe from you though) -- so neat how these things work!
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It's terrible affliction. I'm sure there are support groups. (lol) For the record, I view the movies exactly as you do - can't get enough of them, don't think they're accurate in the nth degree. So, yeah, we'll live and see.
though I was taken aback by the percentage of "ew, fanfic!" reactions in the comments
Maybe it's the fans of 'classic' fantasy/sci-fi? It's really hard but very fascinating trying to determine the kind of readership an author gets.
Re: ereader: I think that's a problem for the 3G model only, there is a Kindle Touch Wifi that seems to be working fine this side of the world, judging by people's reviews. I am, at the moment, feeling increasingly daring and wanting to try working the touchscreen (there's only one button! wah), since reviews say the multitouch is fast and nice, but I wanted to ask you again, based on your experience, how user-friendly is the keyboard? (I found a different brand model with a keyboard, though the keys on it look more like regular keyboard keys not round buttons like on Kindle - I wonder if there is really any difference.. And I do want an eInk/ePaper gadget, I feel my eyes will thank me).
Anyway, if you can tell me anything about how soft/rigid the keys are, do you type with thumbs only or what, I'd be grateful, since I can't really get to touch either (the other brand is relatively non-mainstream, big stores don't carry it). Sorry for hijacking the discussion, too.
I feel like I really have to reserve judgement until I've seen how the whole thing ends... which is not normally a consideration for me for WIP series that grow more organically, like ASOIAF.
Exactly my feeling, as well. And I think because I enjoy the journey/geekery, I am disposed to feel optimistic about the kind of delivery Rothfuss has in store.
Cthaeh aside, there's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and Kvothe/Kote seems utterly convinced that a) his life is over and b) everything he tries will lead to disaster.
Absolutely. Personally, I am of the Chronicler's opinion; I have a hard time believing in any sort of butterfly effect scheme when presented as such a black-and-white notion. It might be that my mind simply boggles...
Now I'm kind of hoping we'll see some subversion of that (though I would fully expect Kvothe to try to justify whatever actions in some manner)
It would be interesting, yes. I think it's enough to suppose that the Edema Ruh will be somehow tied in into the wider mythology explanation if Kvother ever does find out whatever there is to find out about the Chandrian/Amyr and the rest.
The whole fight just seemed manufactured, which stuck out in a book where, for the most part, actions and consequences flowed together pretty well.
Yes, this is what's worrying, especially in connection with Rothfuss potential Nice Guy-ness. There was another instance, in that conversation when Kvothe is complaining to Fela and Sim, and says "She confuses me like no other thing in the world, <> I hate not understanding a thing", - while at the end of NotW he is perfectly capable of explaining her to Sim when the latter calls her cruel etc. The shared understanding of where they come from and the need for independence, the likeness of yourself seen in the other is what made them like each other in the first place, I always found, and now.. The dynamic between them is not much changed. Apparently, Kvothe's libido has been ~awoken, Denna is so ~confusing. Warning bells everywhere, tbh, and, again, quite OOC for Kvothe. It's like Rothfuss doesn't know where he's going with those two, and that's translating into really awkward handling of Denna on the page. Again, sometimes. The scene where Denna is consoling that other girl in a tavern and Kvothe is following her was rather good. Denna was the right kinds of cruel there :P
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how user-friendly is the keyboard?
I like the keyboard! The round keys look a little weird but feel nice, and I like that they're spaced pretty far apart -- I like the kb on my texting phone, and it's very well designed with slopes and grooves and stuff, but I still constantly have the feeling that I'm pressing the wrong key even when I'm not because it's so crowded. I like keys you can really feel when you depress them, and the Kindle has those. I wouldn't want to type a thesis on it, but for entering in urls and typing 3-line comments, it's pretty spiffy, I'd say.
I type on it by holding it with my left as I would when reading and hunt-and-pecking with my right index finger. I generally never learned the thumb-texting thing so I wouldn't naturally try it, but I tried it out just now, and it feels awkward to me on the Kindle, because the keyboard is way at the bottom and when you hold it like that it feels top-heavy, like it's about to slip out of your hands.
And I do want an eInk/ePaper gadget, I feel my eyes will thank me
Yeah, I was really happy with this aspect, because there really is no glare and it feels no different than reading a book once your brain adopts the different page-turning motion.
And hijack away! My f-list was really instrumental in helping me choose an eReader last year, so the least I could do is carry that on :)
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Yep. I'll happily watch ten movies worth of The Hobbit if they were to make them, basking in the Middle-Earth sets and gleaning the bits I like while ignoring anything else. I can sort of understand why people are upset if/when the adaptations are not more faithful, but unless it's an outright perversion of the story, gimme more! (I watched the Bakshi LotR, too, and even liked it in bits.)
Maybe it's the fans of 'classic' fantasy/sci-fi? It's really hard but very fascinating trying to determine the kind of readership an author gets.
That's a very plausible point! I could see NotW attracting both the oldschool LotR crowd (due to the depth of worldbuilding) and the weaned-on-GRRM's-fic-hatin'-ways crowd (due to sheer heft... and masochism of the "when is the next book coming out?" variety, I suppose), which might account for the "ew, fanfic!" thing. Not just in his blog's comments, either. I was poking around on FFN, and there are a couple of Kvothe/Bast stories there, and like half the comments are "it was a good story except for the icky slash! I will read more if you take out the slash next time". I dunno, maybe this is common for FFN, I don't go there very often, but bit of a cultural shock, that.
I am of the Chronicler's opinion; I have a hard time believing in any sort of butterfly effect scheme when presented as such a black-and-white notion
I admit, I lol'd at "butterfly effect" in relation to the Cthaeh :D
I agree with you (and the Chronicler) that it feels silly to accept Bast's superstitions at face value (also, Kvothe is plenty capable of screwing up his own life, tyvm). Besides which, as the Chronicler illustrates, even if somehow true, it's not in any way a useful belief, so why would one worry about it.
especially in connection with Rothfuss potential Nice Guy-ness
I meant to say on the subject of that that while Kvothe avoids being a Nice Guy, it reads almost like someone (older!Kvothe or Rothfuss) feels like he ought to get a medal for it, and that's the part that I find the most disconcerting.
"She confuses me like no other thing in the world, <> I hate not understanding a thing", -
Yes -- I'm not sure it would've stood out to me as it did if I hadn't read your review before I got to that part, but I noticed that, too; it really seems like artificial tension being injected into the Kvothe-and-Denna story -- and it wouldn't surprise me if, as you say, Rothfuss didn't know what to do with them. Kvothe's libido being ~awoken is a good in-universe explanation, though!
The scene where Denna is consoling that other girl in a tavern and Kvothe is following her was rather good. Denna was the right kinds of cruel there
Yes, I liked that scene also. Or, at least, I liked Denna in that scene. The scene itself still felt a bit weirdly inserted. As far as character arc infodumps go, it was a pretty elegant one? But still felt kind of infodumpy. There are limitations to a first-person narrator, of course, but it still feels awkward when you have to have a scene of a character overhearing another character talking to a bit player who never appears again in order to learn something about their past. But I did like Denna in that scene.
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