Ramblings on Fic and Characterization

Jan 30, 2008 14:39

I went on a J-squared reading binge late last week, and found myself running up against two issues that seem to hit me again and again in fanfic in general.

The first is British bleed into American settings, that just throws me right out of the story. One minute it's all good, and then a snigger or have a go or for f**k's sake or wonky or the like ( Read more... )

jsquared_rps, writing, books

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Comments 89

daybright January 30 2008, 22:46:49 UTC
he he you've been reading Joe Grey haven't you?

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 22:50:36 UTC
he he you've been reading Joe Grey haven't you?

Actually no-- there are more sources of BAD out there than you can believe. The 'werejaguar' *chokes on own tongue* is courtesy of a Christine Warren.

And while I don't remember the details of the other dreadful books, the writers were all female, so still not him.

For men, there's sometimes also the "telegraph-style" of writing. In. Really short sentences. Sometimes choppy.

;)

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daybright January 30 2008, 22:54:32 UTC
sorry Joe Grey is the name of one of the cats talking about his owner and reading the newspaper. I don´t remember the writers name eather.
Yes, there are some truly bad writing out there, I'll be sure to look up Christine Warren so I can avoid her.

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 23:01:29 UTC
sorry Joe Grey is the name of one of the cats talking about his owner and reading the newspaper. I don´t remember the writers name eather.

Oh my god-- you've actually seen that book too? *dies*

I immediately forgot all of the details of it, like the cats' names. Because that first page was horrifying enough. Good. Lord.

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certainthings January 30 2008, 22:48:44 UTC
Wait. "for fuck's sake" and "wonky" are British?

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 22:51:53 UTC
Oh, hell yes.

And Canadian authors are another source of this kind of thing, because they get both American and British influence, and are even less aware I think of which falls on which side of the "fence."

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certainthings January 30 2008, 23:01:06 UTC
But ... how are they British? I understand things like using boot instead of trunk and such. But those two? I'm honestly confused here. What would be the American equivalent?

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 23:03:47 UTC
Wonky = wobbly or lopsided or off-kilter, as near as I can tell.

For fuck's sake = for god's sake

Even if a few people use the above in rare cases, they're just not part of the regular American vernacular. So they tend to stick out like a sore thumb.

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pheebs1 January 30 2008, 22:54:52 UTC
One of the absolutely hardest things I find, is not avoiding american words, but phrasing. For Fuck's Sake, for eg. And... I feel myself doing it, but it's hard. It's hard to go, so how DO americans say it? I guess this is why, I think, as a British writer in an American fandom, I think everyone should get an American to check fic over before they post (unless they're like, really really confident). I would expect the same for a Doctor Who fic! (Which I'd be happy to Brit up! LOL!)

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 23:05:40 UTC
I would expect the same for a Doctor Who fic! (Which I'd be happy to Brit up! LOL!)

I actually think that if someone had a "how to Brit up your story" listing, it could be helpful in the reverse, too. For flagging down, among other things, words that don't quite have equivalent connotations over here. There are some that have their own unique flavor as slang that are 'missing' on the other side of the pond.

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thelana January 30 2008, 22:56:47 UTC
I hear ya about the AUs. There are some I can appreciate kind of on their own as well written original fic. But in those cases it's almost distracting sometimes if the characters wear those popular names. Like that in turn takes away from the potential original story. Basically, there are times where I feel that it would almost feel more honest to just stand up for it and put it out there as an original fic.

Except "honest" is probably the wrong word here, because I'm sure these characters or actors were after all at some point the inspiration of the fic, but, well. Complicated.

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 23:09:07 UTC
Basically, there are times where I feel that it would almost feel more honest to just stand up for it and put it out there as an original fic.

In some cases, they'd make for really good stories, too. I mean, these are often fantastic authors who can really tell a story. It's just that the choice to write a character who is really NOT the person they're supposed to be modelled on often doesn't work for someone like me.

Because I'm sure these characters or actors were after all at some point the inspiration of the fic, but, well. Complicated.
Someone back in college, a composition major who wrote a lot of atonal music, was given an assignment to write something "in the style of Mozart." The result was in no way like Mozart at all, BUT... it was the most listenable thing he'd ever written.

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poisontaster January 30 2008, 22:58:07 UTC
You know, in the main I WHOLLY agree with you about Britishisms and their ability to ruin a story for me, but I also see a lot of British drift in the spoken language (in fact, pretty much all the examples you named) that, while I recognize them as Britishisms, don't bug me because they've been...IDK, acceptably Americanized? I mean, I've known people all my life that use "for fuck's sake!" but give me boot, torch, lift, flat, etc. and I'm out.

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 23:13:44 UTC
that, while I recognize them as Britishisms, don't bug me because they've been...IDK, acceptably Americanized?

I guess that's the thing, because for me they really haven't. Even if the occasional person says them once in awhile, they're not part of the common vernacular, and they stick out to me as sounding 'wrong.'

But, and I can only speak for myself here, characterization and writing is a very "voice-dependent" thing for me, and I mean that literally. If I can't hear the character's voice saying those lines in my head (including the narrative being of similar flavor), then I won't write it and I'll tend not to 'believe' it.

I also know people who say "anyways," which has definitely crept into the vernacular, but I sure don't want to read it in a fic as part of the narrative, since it's not a real word. *is double picky*

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poisontaster January 30 2008, 23:25:10 UTC
I suppose that's what I'm saying. I mean, I am also very voice dependent. But if something is in the common vernacular (and wonky and 'for fuck's sake' both fall into that category) then I don't see a problem with it. Those are words that I and my Midwest relatives have used all my life. I would have a problem with something like 'anyways' being used in exposition but if it's within the 'voice' of the character to commonly use such a word then it reads strange to me if they only used proper English. I mean, Bobby's a great example of that for me. He has a definite vernacular and it's not at all good or proper English, but if someone tried to write Bobby as speaking good or proper English, I'd IMMEDIATELY reject it as OOC.

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halfshellvenus January 30 2008, 23:35:27 UTC
Those are words that I and my Midwest relatives have used all my life.

Ah, but I've never come across them personally until I started reading fics by Brits.

I grew up on the West Coast, and have lived in various parts of it. And the bulk of what we hear on television and in movies is the West Coast vernacular (minus some of our stupider slang). Other regional variances tend to sound 'foreign' in that context, at least to me. They're distracting when they sound wrong.

but if it's within the 'voice' of the character to commonly use such a word then it reads strange to me if they only used proper English.Oh, I agree with you-- but the language needs to sound like the character. Bobby's kind of gruff, and I'd expect the narrative surrounding him to sound similar. Or it could be a more distant and refined POV narrative, but once the story goes inside Bobby's head or lets him speak, I expect it to sound like Bobby ( ... )

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