My Methos has been missing for a very long time. I wonder if he decided he needed a drinking buddy and lured your Methos away.
I agree that the best advice for writing is "Do what the story requires," but I think one reason all the other rules get brought up is because you have to have honed your ability to listen to your story, and your ability to write the way it wants to be written. If you don't know the basics, you're not up for either of those things, because you'll have no idea of how to deliberately create the effect you want to create.
ide_cyan uses the term "cuckoo character" instead of Mary Sue, and I find it a far more useful term. It identifies exactly the problem with such characters, which is not that they are attractive, or talented, or interesting, or significant to the story. OCs can (and I would argue often should) be all of these things in fanfiction. I think the trouble arises when such a character occupies the center of the story, at the expense of the canon characters. But then, when I read fanfiction, I do so
( ... )
So it's your fault Methos is gone, huh? ::g:: What bar?
And yes and no, Rana. On the one hand, yes, know the rules you're breaking. But telling me not to use a part of speech is crap, so far as I'm concerned. And too many of the 'rules' I'm seeing aren't rules: they're personal preferences or current trends.
::shrug:: As to 'cuckoo characters'... that makes an assumption that everyone is there for the main characters, or isn't interested in universe fic. When, really, what I'm bitching about is the presumption that only the TV writers could write good OCs and that any online OC is an early warning of lousy writing ahead.
Oh, well. My semi-annual rant, clearly. ::amused:: At least I marked it as a rant?
Most of the ones I've seen that mentioned rules were about the basics: spell-check, know grammar and how to break it, be sure you know what you're doing with punctuation.
::nodding:: And that I agree with. That's why I listed the 'rules' that were driving me so crazy (adverbs, or said, or what have you).
Of course, I've seen a lot of "drabbles aren't real writing" posts to which I've taken exception. I suspect it's just a matter of what triggers you,
::nodding here, too:: Yeah, I've seen some of those, too. Honestly, drabbles do nothing for me but I can definitely see that getting the feel/events across in that format does require skill; I'm sure as hell not going to say it doesn't. I just got triggered by one too many 'this is the correct way to write' articles. Eh.
Foregrounding anything but the characters is very alien to me
( ... )
hmm... you are the autor, why should you care what those people think? i am pretty sure that you have more then enouph people who love your stories and wait for next one whith anticipation & exatiment. your aidan still is ¨mary sue¨ but people love her very much. your mac and methos are too little bit more original then in canon, but they more real and more ¨themselfs¨ then canon in fifth-sixt seasons. and your rich much more real then the one in the series. at list i think so.
I don't write, as a rule. I'd like to, but I don't really have either the ideas or the self-discipline necessary. However, every time I see yet another one of those rules for writing posts, I cringe. I mean, some things are obvious: "Dude, for the love of Pete, please please please capitalize and spell things correctly!" Duh. But most of what I see tend to be along the lines of things that are easily style issues more than anything. That sort of thing doesn't have any sort of hard and fast rules, really.
As to the Mary Sue thing, I ran across Aidan Logan before I'd ever heard of a Mary Sue. I will defend her not-Mary-Sue-ness forever. I have heard so many "definitions" of a Mary Sue that the only way I can characterize one is if she's obviously way over the top. You know, stunning, unusually-colored eyes, multi-hued long, flowing, glorious locks, and PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS. Any of the others? Eh. Might be an MS, might not. I can't tell anymore.
Yeah, I'm tired of people pushing their personal dislikes in prose as 'rules for the masses.' Really, really tired of it. I'm all in favor of 'Learn the basics' but beyond that, this is an art, not a science. Practice, yes. Put it down for a while to come back with some perspective? Yes. Dump one of the 8 parts of English speech? Why?
And as to the label Mary Sue... it seems to me that it's becoming a convenient, and more and more inclusive, shorthand for whatever someone doesn't like.
Eh. Pardon me. I was feeling grouchy, apparently. At least I admitted in the subject that I was ranting?
yet another fed up writerkaizAugust 8 2005, 18:34:21 UTC
I'm tired of 'writing rules.' As far as I'm concerned, all rules of writing should be followed by 'if the story requires it' or 'depending on the writer.'
A-freakin'-men. If I hear one more: "First person POV is teh ebbul" or "Never write in present tense" or "Only ever use 'said'" or "Never use adverbs" I swear I will be forced to smite someone!
I'm tired of all original characters being presumed to be Mary Sues until they can prove otherwise.
Word.
You know: how dare I/we write something new, or take a chance, or lure them into a story under 'false pretenses.'
My reply to these people is always, "If you don't like the story that I wrote, then quit your bitching, get up off your arse, and go write your own damned story just the way you want it. QED."
Re: yet another fed up writertarshaanAugust 8 2005, 20:31:08 UTC
hee. Try second person. Whatever the faults of 3rd-omniscient or 1st, they fly right out the window if you throw up 2nd... and I *like* second, damnit. I'm even kinda good at it. So the people that won't read it out of principle... *grrrrr*.
also, Mary Sue =/= OC. Mary Sue == bad writing. There is a difference, people! [/preachingtothechoir]
Re: yet another fed up writergryphonrhiAugust 8 2005, 20:33:37 UTC
::nodding:: Although I see 2nd person so rarely that usually, it's quite good when someone tries it and puts it out there. Erm. One of yours. One of Kat Allison's. Who else? Iain Banks, maybe, professionally?
As your Highlander fic was the first fanfic I ever ran into, it never occured to me to call Aidan a Mary Sue, or anything other than flatly wonderful to read about.
Have you left offerings of beer out to tempt Methos home?
Hmm. Haven't tried the beer. ::shrug:: And I'm not actually bitching about Aidan. I've just seen one too many auto-assumptions that OC=MS and it annoyed me. Sorry. At least I'm honest about it being a rant?
It's incredibly annoying. My "home" fandom of Harry Potter is even worse, because a lot of bad writers have tried to deal with populating schools, etc, which requires creating OCs to interact with the known, and very often it's done badly. To the point that when it is done right, no one notices. (Well, some of us do.)
Hey, I'm all about honesty in a rant. (grin)If you can't be honest there, where can you?
::g:: Yeah, well, if I can't rant in my own LJ, where can I?
::nodding:: The OC/MS problem is one I've noticed spreading cross-fandom. I'm starting to think kaiz is right, though; it's a problem of expectations. Two different things that are both fanfic, but... yeah. Different. I guess people resent biting into roast beef when they were expecting turkey.
Hey, always nice to learn something during one of these, right?
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I agree that the best advice for writing is "Do what the story requires," but I think one reason all the other rules get brought up is because you have to have honed your ability to listen to your story, and your ability to write the way it wants to be written. If you don't know the basics, you're not up for either of those things, because you'll have no idea of how to deliberately create the effect you want to create.
ide_cyan uses the term "cuckoo character" instead of Mary Sue, and I find it a far more useful term. It identifies exactly the problem with such characters, which is not that they are attractive, or talented, or interesting, or significant to the story. OCs can (and I would argue often should) be all of these things in fanfiction. I think the trouble arises when such a character occupies the center of the story, at the expense of the canon characters. But then, when I read fanfiction, I do so ( ... )
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And yes and no, Rana. On the one hand, yes, know the rules you're breaking. But telling me not to use a part of speech is crap, so far as I'm concerned. And too many of the 'rules' I'm seeing aren't rules: they're personal preferences or current trends.
::shrug:: As to 'cuckoo characters'... that makes an assumption that everyone is there for the main characters, or isn't interested in universe fic. When, really, what I'm bitching about is the presumption that only the TV writers could write good OCs and that any online OC is an early warning of lousy writing ahead.
Oh, well. My semi-annual rant, clearly. ::amused:: At least I marked it as a rant?
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::nodding:: And that I agree with. That's why I listed the 'rules' that were driving me so crazy (adverbs, or said, or what have you).
Of course, I've seen a lot of "drabbles aren't real writing" posts to which I've taken exception. I suspect it's just a matter of what triggers you,
::nodding here, too:: Yeah, I've seen some of those, too. Honestly, drabbles do nothing for me but I can definitely see that getting the feel/events across in that format does require skill; I'm sure as hell not going to say it doesn't. I just got triggered by one too many 'this is the correct way to write' articles. Eh.
Foregrounding anything but the characters is very alien to me ( ... )
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As to the Mary Sue thing, I ran across Aidan Logan before I'd ever heard of a Mary Sue. I will defend her not-Mary-Sue-ness forever. I have heard so many "definitions" of a Mary Sue that the only way I can characterize one is if she's obviously way over the top. You know, stunning, unusually-colored eyes, multi-hued long, flowing, glorious locks, and PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS. Any of the others? Eh. Might be an MS, might not. I can't tell anymore.
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And as to the label Mary Sue... it seems to me that it's becoming a convenient, and more and more inclusive, shorthand for whatever someone doesn't like.
Eh. Pardon me. I was feeling grouchy, apparently. At least I admitted in the subject that I was ranting?
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A-freakin'-men. If I hear one more: "First person POV is teh ebbul" or "Never write in present tense" or "Only ever use 'said'" or "Never use adverbs" I swear I will be forced to smite someone!
I'm tired of all original characters being presumed to be Mary Sues until they can prove otherwise.
Word.
You know: how dare I/we write something new, or take a chance, or lure them into a story under 'false pretenses.'
My reply to these people is always, "If you don't like the story that I wrote, then quit your bitching, get up off your arse, and go write your own damned story just the way you want it. QED."
In short, I feel your pain.
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Eh. Just one too many times of OC=MS. ::g:: You'd think I'd never written a rant specifically on *that*.
Thanks for listening while I bitch, Kai!
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also, Mary Sue =/= OC. Mary Sue == bad writing. There is a difference, people! [/preachingtothechoir]
{{hugs}} though. 'Cause, yeah, frustrating.
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Have you left offerings of beer out to tempt Methos home?
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Hey, I'm all about honesty in a rant. (grin)If you can't be honest there, where can you?
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::nodding:: The OC/MS problem is one I've noticed spreading cross-fandom. I'm starting to think kaiz is right, though; it's a problem of expectations. Two different things that are both fanfic, but... yeah. Different. I guess people resent biting into roast beef when they were expecting turkey.
Hey, always nice to learn something during one of these, right?
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