I was completely willing to surf along on Bill Nye, Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Dave Foley!!!11! squee but NO! they had to bludgeon me with the most horrible romance anvil I've witnessed in a long time!
I can probably be squeeful about most of the episode now that I've embarrassed myself ranting. I'm still utterly squeeful about "The Shrine", and I'm close to desensitizing myself to that last bit.
And Bill Nye! Neil DeGrasse Tyson! And Dave Foley!
the most horrible romance anvil I've witnessed in a long time
A friendship is a relationship. It matters. Yes, yes, YES! Friendship matters. Lovers should be friends first, both in the temporal sense and in the sense of what matters most. And the writers can often even handle friendship, as opposed to lurve, which they can't handle much at all. (Doesn't Martin Gero have a girlfriend? I mean, really, if I hadn't seen pictures of him with a woman on Mallozzi's blog, I'd think maybe he didn't even know any women beyond acquaintanceship!)
Bill Nye and Neil de Grasse Tyson made me happy, and watching Rodney usually makes me happy and did in spite of the writing last night, so I'm mostly just pretending that certain moments of the show didn't happen. Didn't happen at all. On the plane? What? Just snuggling. Honest. I'm sure of it. I know that if I had nearly died and were still wet or even kinda damp under a blanket, snuggling is what I'd want. (Nearly as much as I'd want to change my clothes before I got on the frigging plane! "No, just use the jet for someone else, and I'll go to the nearest Target
( ... )
Martin Gero does have a girlfriend, and seems like a pretty cool guy in real life. I'm guessing that the whole romance angle is something he and the other writers really don't care for, but they think they have to, so it always comes off like this. Hell, I loved the Daniel/Vala UST element, but hated how they handled it in "Unending".
I don't know if it's just a guy's view on relationships, or that they really don't want to write this sort of thing. Either way, it never works for me when they try to showcase it. In the background? It usually works. Rodney and Katie's background relationship, Carson and Cadman's, Sha're and Daniel, etc, etc... but the moment when they try to showcase it is when they turn me off. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if they like the idea of it, but they don't exactly feel it, if that makes any sense? There are lots of scenes and characters that I love the idea of, but if I don't feel it, then the writing comes out horribly clumsy and awkward.
On the plane? What? Just snuggling. Honest. I'm
( ... )
Yes, I thought he had a girlfriend. seems like a pretty cool guy in real life Too bad it's not carrying over into some of his writing!
I get frustrated partly because I know he can do better! I really did like "Ethon" and "200"; I loved "The Road Not Taken," on SG-1. For SGA: "The Storm," "The Eye," "The Siege," "McKay and Mrs. Miller".... But then there's "Allies" and "No Man's Land," and "Sunday," which I'm having a hard time forgiving (still working on it).
the more I wonder if they like the idea of it, but they don't exactly feel it Maybe that's why so many of us don't feel it! I love Rodney, I want to see him happy; I really do like Jennifer, and I can see them together. This wasn't that episode, however, so I'm shutting out some of the details.
You could be right, that either there's a decree from on high or, more likely, just a sense that a show that runs so long ought to produce a romance. You're absolutely right about romance in the background versus trying to put it in the foreground. (Marty G wrote Young People Fucking
( ... )
Maybe that's why so many of us don't feel it! I love Rodney, I want to see him happy; I really do like Jennifer, and I can see them together. This wasn't that episode, however, so I'm shutting out some of the details.
Yes, yes, yes! That is it exactly! How are you always able to phrase what I'm thinking so much better than me? It's not that I don't like one of the characters, don't like the thought of them being together, I'm just having issues with what I've seen.
Marty G wrote Young People Fucking, which I have no particular desire to see given his track record with anything romantic! I am curious about it, though.
The title of it alone has frightened me from seeking it out. It might be interesting to see, see if what I think I'm getting out of the episodes is what he's really writing, or if something's been lost/changed along the way.
Snuggling. That's what anyone who just nearly died would want, especially after her boyfriend decided she needed CPR and probably left her with a bruise the size of her head on her sternum.Owww
( ... )
Um, I get what you're saying but I loved the episode, all of it, and so I guess we'd better just agree to disagree on this one. I know it might seemed rushed, but I guess for me I'm used to TV doing that (or else spinning out for ages and ages until it's gets boring - I prefer the former). Whatever, I loved it, even the bits you didn't (and am more irritated by the medical mistakes, but I'm chosing to ignore them).
On the plus side, this means that, despite evidence to the contrary (our IM chats), we don't actually share the same brain!! *phew*
Minor note: Is it specifically for Rodney/Jennifer that you have a problem with the age gap? I know for some they find it hard for those two charcaters but have no problem with it in real life. Just wondering, seeing as I married a man 16 years my senior and have never regretted it!
Well, a rant is a rant ;) I really don't expect a lot of people to agree with me. I just sort of needed to get it off my chest. Usually once I do, I can just move past what's bugging me. Because this? Is such a minor thing in the show. I've just been sitting on the annoyance for a while because I wanted to be utterly squeeful about our last season.
I did enjoy almost the entire episode. I think if I wasn't so emotionally invested into the show, it wouldn't have bugged me as much as it did. I usually just roll my eyes and move on. I don't think it's even that it's rushed that it bugged me... I don't know, it's hard to explain. I think I'm just more irritated at the fact that I've got to try and reslot things about the characters in my head. Really, it's a selfish thing ;)
It's not going to ruin the show for me, short of them killing off the cast and revealing it's all been a dream, I don't think they could.
we don't actually share the same brain!! *phew*Are you sure? Perhaps it means that our shared brain is having some sort of epic
( ... )
On Keller, at least for this episode, I'm going to have to disagree. I think she acted just like any one of Rodney's friends would I think would, including John. She teased Rodney, tried to reel him in from an embarrassing social situation (and I think it was for his sake, not hers). The more I think about it, the more I see that scene where Rodney's standing up in front of the crowd as her trying to shush him, possibly for Stargate secrecy reasons, but also because she can see it's not going to work. It never really come across to me as nagging or "trying to change Rodney", it's one thing to tell someone to try to act humble, to try and reign in their bad behavior in public. His team does to him all the time, so I really don't see her behavior as the problem.
Past that she keeps stating how much she finds the subject deathly dull. Physics, y'know, Rodney's greatest passion, holds not a single lick of interest for her.I don't know... I find that a little unfair. Nobody loves
( ... )
Re: Part One... (I got long winded.)gnineNovember 25 2008, 15:10:16 UTC
I might get long-winded as well, apologies in advance...
I think she acted just like any one of Rodney's friends would I think would, including John.See, here I'm gonna have to disagree with your disagree. For a couple of reasons. First, though the other's all often tease Rodney about his modesty, or lack there of, I can't remember times they actually order him to tone it back and truly expect him to do so (I could be misremembering). I see a difference between teasing, if it's with the intent of hoping the person will get a clue and better themselves, and actually requesting and expecting the person to do it
( ... )
Re: Part One... (My part 2...I got long-winded as well...OOps! :-P)gnineNovember 25 2008, 15:11:38 UTC
it's that it's just ignored, glossed over so they don't have to worry about addressing it See, that's what's been getting me so much about Keller's character: so much of it is glossed over. They seem to dismiss any actual development, particularly flaws, in favor of going "look, look JEWEL STAITE!!" And that's the thing that's boggling my mind. You say a lot of people were against her from the beginning. Now maybe it's just the particular people on my flist (I have a LOT of fans of Firefly there) but I saw a lot more worry over Sam than of Keller at the beginning. Except for the people that were adamantly against anything not Carson, most people I saw were excited by the addition of Jewel to the cast. I know I was. It's been her development, or lack there of, the "everybody just loves her, no one ever questions her", the glossing over of any potential flaws that has actually had me liking her less and less (I have a half-written essay on the idea of characters being added late in the game *needing* to be questioned and doubted by the
( ... )
A friendship is a relationship. It matters. And it matters that you're going to be friends after you resolve your UST. (Agreed on most points. Agreed on this one, too, but wanted to make special mention of it because it seems to be a trend found in other SG romances - the idea that friendship and romance are mutually exclusive. Rodney & Keller can't be friends, because then they wouldn't be romantic. Sam & Jack are a couple but Daniel is Jack's best friend, because Sam couldn't possibly be. Rodney/Katie, Teyla/Kanaan, Ronon/Keller - there's never any relationship shown between them except the romantic. There's never any bonding over mutual interests or hobbies; there's no real conversations about their relationship, about what they are to each other, what they see in each other, just love confessions/rejections
( ... )
Sam & Jack are a couple but Daniel is Jack's best friend, because Sam couldn't possibly be.
Maybe there-in lies the problem. I have no problem with romance itself, but I'm not going to feel it or believe it if the people don't seem to like each other as people, rather than lust for each other. I think there are plenty of shows that show this well, how friends can transition to romance, but still be friends. It just baffles me why this seems to be an issue with the SG writers. Is it the "Big Damn Heroes" and the "Big Damn Sci-Fi/Action Show" mindset? If they get too mushy will all the college boys get turned off?
Actually, I don't know if this is about romance, or rather the belief that men and women completely lack the grounds to be friends, and can only ever relate to one another romantically.
It almost seems like that... but then you do have Teyla interacting with her teammates in a non-romantic manner. She and Rodney don't interact much, but when they do it's more like siblings than anything resembling UST. She and Ronon are so
( ... )
Hmm, agreed that there are platonic m-f friendships - few of them are played as strong as the m-m friendships (there's definitely more John-Rodney than Teyla-anyone, and I think there's more Ronon-John than Ronon-Teyla...) But then there's more m-f friendships than f-f friendship, definitely, so, yeah, SGA can do men and women being friends.
But friends aren't romantic, ever; there's this huge line drawn between friendship and romance. And friendship usually comes out on top - see "The Shrine" - as the more significant relationship, which maybe is why the writers are so bad at romance, because they don't actually think romance is that important? As long as you're getting sex, who cares if there's a real relationship there? Something like that? Hmm...
But then there's more m-f friendships than f-f friendship, definitely, so, yeah, SGA can do men and women being friends.
Point. They can do it, and they do do it, but they don't do it equally. I mean, I love that they do the John-Rodney stuff so well, but I wouldn't be horribly opposed to more Teyla-Ronon buddy scenes too.
But friends aren't romantic, ever; there's this huge line drawn between friendship and romance.
Point to you again. I honestly, honestly cannot think of a single instance to refute this point, especially on SGA. It seemed like they were trying to skirt that line a little in season two with both Teyla and Elizabeth with John, but the romantic/UST stuff always came off rather forced to me -- but their scenes where they weren't trying to do a "Will they? Won't they?" vibe worked well. (I'm really channeling "Long Goodbye" in this example, but I know there's another instance.) It seemed though they almost dropped it in season three.
As long as you're getting sex, who cares if there's a real relationship there?But of
( ... )
Comments 38
I was completely willing to surf along on Bill Nye, Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Dave Foley!!!11! squee but NO! they had to bludgeon me with the most horrible romance anvil I've witnessed in a long time!
I'm holding back on capslock by a hairsbreadth.
Reply
And Bill Nye! Neil DeGrasse Tyson! And Dave Foley!
the most horrible romance anvil I've witnessed in a long time
SNORT! I think that's the best way to sum it up.
Reply
Yes, yes, YES! Friendship matters. Lovers should be friends first, both in the temporal sense and in the sense of what matters most. And the writers can often even handle friendship, as opposed to lurve, which they can't handle much at all. (Doesn't Martin Gero have a girlfriend? I mean, really, if I hadn't seen pictures of him with a woman on Mallozzi's blog, I'd think maybe he didn't even know any women beyond acquaintanceship!)
Bill Nye and Neil de Grasse Tyson made me happy, and watching Rodney usually makes me happy and did in spite of the writing last night, so I'm mostly just pretending that certain moments of the show didn't happen. Didn't happen at all. On the plane? What? Just snuggling. Honest. I'm sure of it. I know that if I had nearly died and were still wet or even kinda damp under a blanket, snuggling is what I'd want. (Nearly as much as I'd want to change my clothes before I got on the frigging plane! "No, just use the jet for someone else, and I'll go to the nearest Target ( ... )
Reply
I don't know if it's just a guy's view on relationships, or that they really don't want to write this sort of thing. Either way, it never works for me when they try to showcase it. In the background? It usually works. Rodney and Katie's background relationship, Carson and Cadman's, Sha're and Daniel, etc, etc... but the moment when they try to showcase it is when they turn me off. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if they like the idea of it, but they don't exactly feel it, if that makes any sense? There are lots of scenes and characters that I love the idea of, but if I don't feel it, then the writing comes out horribly clumsy and awkward.
On the plane? What? Just snuggling. Honest. I'm ( ... )
Reply
seems like a pretty cool guy in real life
Too bad it's not carrying over into some of his writing!
I get frustrated partly because I know he can do better! I really did like "Ethon" and "200"; I loved "The Road Not Taken," on SG-1. For SGA: "The Storm," "The Eye," "The Siege," "McKay and Mrs. Miller".... But then there's "Allies" and "No Man's Land," and "Sunday," which I'm having a hard time forgiving (still working on it).
the more I wonder if they like the idea of it, but they don't exactly feel it
Maybe that's why so many of us don't feel it! I love Rodney, I want to see him happy; I really do like Jennifer, and I can see them together. This wasn't that episode, however, so I'm shutting out some of the details.
You could be right, that either there's a decree from on high or, more likely, just a sense that a show that runs so long ought to produce a romance. You're absolutely right about romance in the background versus trying to put it in the foreground. (Marty G wrote Young People Fucking ( ... )
Reply
Yes, yes, yes! That is it exactly! How are you always able to phrase what I'm thinking so much better than me? It's not that I don't like one of the characters, don't like the thought of them being together, I'm just having issues with what I've seen.
Marty G wrote Young People Fucking, which I have no particular desire to see given his track record with anything romantic! I am curious about it, though.
The title of it alone has frightened me from seeking it out. It might be interesting to see, see if what I think I'm getting out of the episodes is what he's really writing, or if something's been lost/changed along the way.
Snuggling. That's what anyone who just nearly died would want, especially after her boyfriend decided she needed CPR and probably left her with a bruise the size of her head on her sternum.Owww ( ... )
Reply
On the plus side, this means that, despite evidence to the contrary (our IM chats), we don't actually share the same brain!! *phew*
Minor note: Is it specifically for Rodney/Jennifer that you have a problem with the age gap? I know for some they find it hard for those two charcaters but have no problem with it in real life. Just wondering, seeing as I married a man 16 years my senior and have never regretted it!
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I did enjoy almost the entire episode. I think if I wasn't so emotionally invested into the show, it wouldn't have bugged me as much as it did. I usually just roll my eyes and move on. I don't think it's even that it's rushed that it bugged me... I don't know, it's hard to explain. I think I'm just more irritated at the fact that I've got to try and reslot things about the characters in my head. Really, it's a selfish thing ;)
It's not going to ruin the show for me, short of them killing off the cast and revealing it's all been a dream, I don't think they could.
we don't actually share the same brain!! *phew*Are you sure? Perhaps it means that our shared brain is having some sort of epic ( ... )
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On Keller, at least for this episode, I'm going to have to disagree. I think she acted just like any one of Rodney's friends would I think would, including John. She teased Rodney, tried to reel him in from an embarrassing social situation (and I think it was for his sake, not hers). The more I think about it, the more I see that scene where Rodney's standing up in front of the crowd as her trying to shush him, possibly for Stargate secrecy reasons, but also because she can see it's not going to work. It never really come across to me as nagging or "trying to change Rodney", it's one thing to tell someone to try to act humble, to try and reign in their bad behavior in public. His team does to him all the time, so I really don't see her behavior as the problem.
Past that she keeps stating how much she finds the subject deathly dull. Physics, y'know, Rodney's greatest passion, holds not a single lick of interest for her.I don't know... I find that a little unfair. Nobody loves ( ... )
Reply
I think she acted just like any one of Rodney's friends would I think would, including John.See, here I'm gonna have to disagree with your disagree. For a couple of reasons. First, though the other's all often tease Rodney about his modesty, or lack there of, I can't remember times they actually order him to tone it back and truly expect him to do so (I could be misremembering). I see a difference between teasing, if it's with the intent of hoping the person will get a clue and better themselves, and actually requesting and expecting the person to do it ( ... )
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Maybe there-in lies the problem. I have no problem with romance itself, but I'm not going to feel it or believe it if the people don't seem to like each other as people, rather than lust for each other. I think there are plenty of shows that show this well, how friends can transition to romance, but still be friends. It just baffles me why this seems to be an issue with the SG writers. Is it the "Big Damn Heroes" and the "Big Damn Sci-Fi/Action Show" mindset? If they get too mushy will all the college boys get turned off?
Actually, I don't know if this is about romance, or rather the belief that men and women completely lack the grounds to be friends, and can only ever relate to one another romantically.
It almost seems like that... but then you do have Teyla interacting with her teammates in a non-romantic manner. She and Rodney don't interact much, but when they do it's more like siblings than anything resembling UST. She and Ronon are so ( ... )
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But friends aren't romantic, ever; there's this huge line drawn between friendship and romance. And friendship usually comes out on top - see "The Shrine" - as the more significant relationship, which maybe is why the writers are so bad at romance, because they don't actually think romance is that important? As long as you're getting sex, who cares if there's a real relationship there? Something like that? Hmm...
Reply
Point. They can do it, and they do do it, but they don't do it equally. I mean, I love that they do the John-Rodney stuff so well, but I wouldn't be horribly opposed to more Teyla-Ronon buddy scenes too.
But friends aren't romantic, ever; there's this huge line drawn between friendship and romance.
Point to you again. I honestly, honestly cannot think of a single instance to refute this point, especially on SGA. It seemed like they were trying to skirt that line a little in season two with both Teyla and Elizabeth with John, but the romantic/UST stuff always came off rather forced to me -- but their scenes where they weren't trying to do a "Will they? Won't they?" vibe worked well. (I'm really channeling "Long Goodbye" in this example, but I know there's another instance.) It seemed though they almost dropped it in season three.
As long as you're getting sex, who cares if there's a real relationship there?But of ( ... )
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