All I want is not to get tongue-tied on Tuesday...

[gregoria44]

I am entitled to an opinion (still) and I'm bloody well going to express it!

(The above sentence aimed squarely at my parents for the time being.)

Comments

[silvershe_wolf]

Forgive me I haven't read your letters at the bottom as brain is fuzzing. I get what you are saying though and agree. I remember thinking the same when I was a kid. I came from a basically agnostic family and went to the local comps (not religious schools). However I still had to pray, sing hymns and listen to Bible stories. I didn't see why. I had never said I was a Christian. I decided at a very young age I was not a Christian (I think I was at Infant School). I remember in Junior School I never said amen after prayers as my own personal protest! I always used to be afraid that the teachers would see that I hadn't said it and tell me off, lol. I thought it was all compulsory. I also remember criticised my parents for Christening me! I told them it was up to me to decide my religion. My mum agreed, and just said she Christened me just because 'that's what people did' (and probably because her family wouldn't have been impressed if she hadn't as they were all Methodists

[gregoria44]

Oh, my goodness! I used to do that not saying 'amen' thing as well! I'd completely forgotten that!

Clearly we didn't have the Boy Christened, though I was doused, and so was Bloke - as your mum quite rightly says, it's just what people did back then. We had a bit of a conundrum with the Boy, because we did want to mark his arrival in a family-style way, but certainly weren't going to get some bloke in a smock to scrawl on his forehead with Severn Trent's finest (as one vicar once said at a Christening we attended!) just to achieve such a thing.

In the end, we had a rousing 1st birthday party for him instead, and made it clear it was in lieu of a baptismal effort. Much fun was had by all (and so was an aeroplane-shaped cake!)

I respect all religions and think that with the exclusion of the mad ones (*cough* Scientology *cough*) they can be a force for good.See, to me, most traditional religions do have a lot of mad elements!! Catholicism, Judaism and Islam being prime candidates for sectioning (though I appreciate they are all

[silvershe_wolf]

See, to me, most traditional religions do have a lot of mad elements!! Ok, if I'm honest - I'll agree. I think every religion I have come across has it's mad elements, including my own! Some of the stuff some Buddhists believe I find rather baffling

[gregoria44]

Whilst 'religions' like Scientology start with a Science Fiction writer, and end with Tom Cruise acting incredibly strangely...

Ah, if only that were where it ended!!

Were that all religious folk like yourself and your mother, lovely Silver :)

religions of the world tend to originate from some remarkable prophet-figure, who truly impressed hundreds, thousands, or millions of people in his lifetime, often with miracles or teachings that changed people's lives upside-down.In his lifetime? Can't speak for all the main religions (and I do love the fact that there are WAY more Hindus than Christians) but certainly Christianity was more like an avalanche - and the facts of Jesus' life are decidedly shady and over-glossed. Interesting also that all of these prophet fellows are just that - men, not women. We actually have very little evidence of any prophet's real life - and yes, they all follow a similar vein, perhaps too similar

[charisstoma]

Calm. Deep breaths. It seems that from what you put here in the pamphlet materials that you can opt out."The school will make arrangements for parents to exercise their right to withdraw children from the daily act of collective worship or R.E. lessons if they have religious or moral objections."We have students in our Independent School District schools who by law are required to take physical education but.. they can opt out and take some type of physical education outside school to satisfy this requirement. They take dance or martial arts or soccer usually but I doubt that is the limit of options

[lankyguy]

It all sounds well and good until the last paragraph, mostly.

Atheism is NOT a religion.

I would say that teaching children about the different religions, the good and bad sides of religion, is a far cry from a Collective Worship service. Why call it worship if it's education? It sounds more like indoctrination in the guise of religious education.

It's the difference between educating and proselytizing.

[charisstoma]

We teach our children what we expect in correct behavior all the time. What is appropriate in a friend's home may not be in ours. We have knives in our home. The children were taught that they were not toys and not to be used as toys the same way my parents didn't have to worry about storing poisonous cleaning products under the sink. This is similar. One teaches to protect.

You are correct Atheism isn't a religion but it is a way of looking and reacting to the world. The correct way to act towards others and set circumstances is a manner of belief. Why doesn't one do this to others? Why should you act this way if this happens?
An explanation that 'this is what other people believe and we don't think they are correct' is called for. You want your own views on religion to come forward but you want the child to know that that is what is out there so they don't get hurt.

*SIGHS* I am probably speaking from a different perspective. We have separation of church and state here. I was truely shocked at work to see a Holy Bible on the

[lankyguy]

'An explanation that 'this is what other people believe and we don't think they are correct' is called for. You want your own views on religion to come forward but you want the child to know that that is what is out there so they don't get hurt.'

This only works on the assumption that a given community is homogeneous in it's beliefs. Who is the school to speak for everyone? It is a civil institution, it should not be taking sides.

I am a US citizen born and bred, went to high school in Texas as a matter of fact, I know full well how it is and in particular the Christian bias forced on everyone in the public school system.

[gregoria44]

See, I would love schools to take that attitude over here - oh, have a bit of a pray and then let's get on with the day. (Of course, what I'd really love is for religion to be exorcised from schools altogether, but I am a realist!)

We never had religion in assemblies from the start of senior school (at age 11), so I guess our (very sensible) head teacher was breaking the law. Ridiculous.

Thanks for the good luck - the meeting went well, and I feel it achieved something!

But more thanks for the positive take on a religion-free upbringing - I can only hope the Boy and Little R see it the same way!

*hugs*

[ladywillin]

I saw this post yesterday and decided not to reply at the time because I wanted to check up on the question of whether the laws and requirements appertaining to 'community, foundation and voluntary' schools also applies to primary schools as well. You'd think that having worked in a primary school for the best part of fifteen years I'd know this, but I'm ashamed to say I don't. (Though this might reflect in some measure, my own school's approach to collective worship, more of which in a minute.) But guess what? I forgot to check *duh*. I didn't write it down see, so ... *head full of butterflies

[gregoria44]

Thank you so much for getting back to me on this - I'm at the meeting with the asst. head tomorrow morning, so am currently making notes and getting my head together. You wouldn't believe how muddy this particular puddle is - I've been chasing round the internet all evening to no particular joy. Teachernet, NASACRE, DfES (or whatever it's called today!) etc. etc. and I still can't get a straight answer to half of my questions!

I'll get back to you with a better reply tomorrow evening, hopefully, but honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't be ashamed at not having the answers to the questions at my fingertips - I don't think 15yrs of pure collective worship studies would leave a person any the wiser!!

V. helpful to know how your school deals with CW - don't worry, I won't be quoting you, but I'm hoping the Boy's school follows a very similar model to yours :)

[ladywillin]

I hope your meeting went well, that some of the mud has been cleared and that you were given answers that satisfied with regard to the Boy's CW practices?

These days it seems that most areas of school life are pitched in mire. In trying to be politically correct, cover all bases and not offend anybody, the obvious has been lost and common sense thrown out with the bath water and the baby.

Slightly off topic re: religion/CW, we are currently experiencing ugly issues with the family of an autistic child, the laws of which are so complicated it's laughable. There doesn't appear to be one person who knows what to do and so much time (and money) is being expended on it, it's obscene. I'm not convinced by David Cameron's academy schools but if it means these issues could be dealt with sensibly then we should all turn into academy schools immediately!