All I want is not to get tongue-tied on Tuesday...
I am entitled to an opinion (still) and I'm bloody well going to express it!
(The above sentence aimed squarely at my parents for the time being.)
( Until the other week, I'd never even heard the term 'Collective Worship'. Now I have, and I am ANGRY... )
(The above sentence aimed squarely at my parents for the time being.)
( Until the other week, I'd never even heard the term 'Collective Worship'. Now I have, and I am ANGRY... )
In my opinion though, religion should be taught in R.E. But worship should not be enforced. If parents want their kids to worship, they should do it in church (or whatever religious building is appropriate).
And I actually say this from the position of someone who is religious! Not only do I belong to a religion, but I respect all religions and think that with the exclusion of the mad ones (*cough* Scientology *cough*) they can be a force for good. But not when people belong to a religion just because they were bought up to, or even worse, are afraid not to be! Children should not be taught religion as if it is fact. They need to be aware of the different religions, and be aware of the point of view of atheists and agnostics, and then gradually engage with what they think and agree with.
In any case, I respect your decision not to take your son out of collective worship, even though you disagree with it. Must be hard but I see where you are coming from there. I remember a Muslim girl in my Junior School never attended assemblies. I used to find it really puzzling, and I can't help but think now that she must have felt lonely on her own when everyone else was in assembly.
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Clearly we didn't have the Boy Christened, though I was doused, and so was Bloke - as your mum quite rightly says, it's just what people did back then. We had a bit of a conundrum with the Boy, because we did want to mark his arrival in a family-style way, but certainly weren't going to get some bloke in a smock to scrawl on his forehead with Severn Trent's finest (as one vicar once said at a Christening we attended!) just to achieve such a thing.
In the end, we had a rousing 1st birthday party for him instead, and made it clear it was in lieu of a baptismal effort. Much fun was had by all (and so was an aeroplane-shaped cake!)
I respect all religions and think that with the exclusion of the mad ones (*cough* Scientology *cough*) they can be a force for good.
See, to me, most traditional religions do have a lot of mad elements!! Catholicism, Judaism and Islam being prime candidates for sectioning (though I appreciate they are all Abrahamic in origin, so perhaps they are suffering from a split personality anyway!!)
Seriously though, with the world as it currently stands, religious education is important - if only because, by talking about incompatible world views, it is easier to see the completely divisive nature of organised religion and its parallel with human psychology.
What irks me is the oversized share of institutional respect given to religion. The sheer number of people who will back off from criticism of anything the moment religion comes into it.
If I stood outside the Boy's school and questioned every single parent on their view of collective worship, I can guarantee that a good proportion of them would say something along the lines of 'well it's important for them to have some religion, isn't it?' without being able to explain or justify such a statement.
Children should not be taught religion as if it is fact. They need to be aware of the different religions, and be aware of the point of view of atheists and agnostics, and then gradually engage with what they think and agree with.
If I may say, "amen, sister, amen!!"
(Though I'm not sure agnosticism could be defined as a point of view *giggle*)
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Ok, if I'm honest - I'll agree. I think every religion I have come across has it's mad elements, including my own! Some of the stuff some Buddhists believe I find rather baffling.
I guess what I mean is that the main religions of the world tend to originate from some remarkable prophet-figure, who truly impressed hundreds, thousands, or millions of people in his lifetime, often with miracles or teachings that changed people's lives upside-down. Furthermore they have a bit of a tried-and-tested element. This may sound a bit lame but I think it's true!! If a religion has survived thousands of years, with billions of followers who swear they have found 'the truth' through it, then in my opinion it is not something to be brushed aside. You may not agree with the beliefs of the religion, but it must have 'something' in it, esp if some of it's followers become remarkable people like Ghandi (Hindu), Mother Theresa (Catholic), William Wilberforce (Evangelical Christian), Thich Nhat Hanh and the Dali Lama (Buddhist), etc etc, all of whom point to their religion rather than themselves as the key to their awesomeness.
Whilst 'religions' like Scientology start with a Science Fiction writer, and end with Tom Cruise acting incredibly strangely...
In any case, I knew you were only being tongue-in-cheek. I just like friendly debate about religion.
(Though I'm not sure agnosticism could be defined as a point of view *giggle*)
Actually I think it can be! Ok, in the case of my brothers and father it isn't. Their approach to religion is - do I care? Now shhhh I'm watching the TV.
But my mum is a different kind of agnostic. She is very interested in religion, and goes to a Buddhist Centre just like me. However, she is not one for 'belief'. She does not believe in God, and she does not not believe in God, because she says - how can we know? She is the same with most other issues - what happens after death, Buddhist stuff like karma, Buddhas/Bodhisattvas, etc, etc. She likes the Buddhist centre though as a lot of Buddhism (though certainly not all) is not really a matter of belief. It's more like: here's a meditation. Try it yourself. If it works, great, if it doesn't, poop. And many variations on that theme!
So she is an agnostic who really does have a point of view. She thinks that the most important things in life are to be compassionate and loving, and to find your own personal peace of mind. And she is happy going along to Buddhist Centres (and churches too sometimes) as she finds through her own experience, that some of their practices help achieve this, whilst not really committing herself when it comes to beliefs.
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Ah, if only that were where it ended!!
Were that all religious folk like yourself and your mother, lovely Silver :)
religions of the world tend to originate from some remarkable prophet-figure, who truly impressed hundreds, thousands, or millions of people in his lifetime, often with miracles or teachings that changed people's lives upside-down.
In his lifetime? Can't speak for all the main religions (and I do love the fact that there are WAY more Hindus than Christians) but certainly Christianity was more like an avalanche - and the facts of Jesus' life are decidedly shady and over-glossed. Interesting also that all of these prophet fellows are just that - men, not women. We actually have very little evidence of any prophet's real life - and yes, they all follow a similar vein, perhaps too similar.
In times of crisis, people reach for spokespeople. They will acredit one person with (for want of a better phrase) any passing 'miracle', and objectivism goes out of the window (or mud hut air-hole.)
If a religion has survived thousands of years, with billions of followers who swear they have found 'the truth' through it, then in my opinion it is not something to be brushed aside.
But - religion does not survive in the same form. Social mores and morals change constantly, and religion adapts to those changes. In Christianity for example, we are living in a rather stagnant period, but only since medieval times, which is a relatively short timespan on the global scale.
People (today more than ever - largely as a result of education and a more general dissemination of knowledge/opening of borders) can look at a wide range of moral teachings and choose their own path. The important thing to remember is that we are capable of making a moral choice about these matters, which means in turn we are capable of deciding between right and wrong without the aid of (and despite the nature of) religion!
There are many, many amazing people (most of whom we never hear of) who are inspiring and awesome without reference to their spiritual beliefs. I would certainly argue that the ones we do hear of are more often given a platform because of their religious involvement, and of course, this is part of the argument in Texas education, which Charis and Lankyguy touch on, below.
To me, this business of collective worship is part of a general belief that without religion we are incapable of goodness, and this makes me unutterably sad.
In any case, I knew you were only being tongue-in-cheek. I just like friendly debate about religion.
Quite so - if we are scared to debate as intelligent human beings, we simply live ignorantly in fear!
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Totally agree. However I do believe there is an uncorrupted essence in all of the major religions, which is what some followers (the minority usually) manage to access and use for good.
I use the word 'believe' though, for this is obviously a personal belief of mine.
The important thing to remember is that we are capable of making a moral choice about these matters, which means in turn we are capable of deciding between right and wrong without the aid of (and despite the nature of) religion!
Yes. A person can def make moral choices without religion. I don't think that a religious person is any more likely to behave morally than a non-religious person (although obviously as a Buddhist I do think Buddhism has a lot to offer in this area to any person who makes their own personal choice to follow it).
To me, this business of collective worship is part of a general belief that without religion we are incapable of goodness, and this makes me unutterably sad.
Yes, this is sad. And it's a belief that would do everyone good if it was moved away from.
I wish there was more friendly debate going on out there concerning religious issues. I think we all have to be careful in this area, as it is a topic people are usually passionate about, but lack of communication breeds lack of understanding. And lack of understanding breeds hostility, divisiveness and/or ignorance ragarding very important issues.
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