Major Shoup's comments on the GK book

[alethialia]

More research some might find interesting. In June of 2008, Major Shoup posted his comments on the Generation Kill book in a long, thoughtful blog post. Evan Wright responded to those comments, including many quotes from his interviews of people at the time (Encino Man's is fabulous). The back-and-forth is both fascinating and refreshingly

Comments

[foreverdirt]

Really interesting -- thanks for posting this!

[alethialia]

Welcome!

[ungratefulwench]

This was a fascinating read - thanks for finding and sharing it!

An element of Generation Kill that you can't escape the fact it's written from the point of view of the ground floor of the organisation, so to speak. I think that Wright does highlight that the guys he's primarily writing about are low down on the chain and don't know the ins and outs of the battle plan. It's interesting that Shoup seems to have missed that completely. Write about anything from the point of view of the front line staff and you'll get a biased (probably negative) version of what's going on.

On another topic entirely, it was quite interesting to see Shoup highlight his 'flyboy' status as something which definitely set him apart from the others.

[alethialia]

Welcome!

I think that Wright does highlight that the guys he's primarily writing about are low down on the chain and don't know the ins and outs of the battle plan. It's interesting that Shoup seems to have missed that completely.

Oh, I know. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a military man sees more than what was intended, while it's perfectly clear to civilians, but I am. Especially when Shoup escaped all of the criticism.

[kahtyasofia]

Where are you finding these gems? And what are you working on that this is your research

[alethialia]

I think I was looking to see if Encino Man had been promoted (answer: oh, yes, yes he has) and since they're the same rank Google spit it out at me. I'm cool with that.

And it was research for the sekrit service!fic (that shall never see the light of day, JFC).

I kept thinking to myself, where's he getting that from? I suspect he got his back up over things that most of us really did clearly understand.

SO true! I suspect he's reading into it more than civilians do.

breaks down Shoup's comments to include the distinction between criticism of content and criticism of structure.

Yeah and starts discussing it in terms of the 'meta disagreement.' Heh.

I think we've always been aware that Nate edited Evan's manuscript on some level

We've always been aware that Nate read it and offered some overall thoughts ('too much swearing'), but I've never gotten the impression that he was this involved - suggesting the removal of attribution for a certain quote implies a line-by-line scouring of it. Hell, Evan even says so: "closely read

[d_i_]

And it was research for the sekrit service!fic (that shall never see the light of day, JFC.)

Don't even joke. I'm the one who's never going to finish shit, YOU are going to finish and post! I will not be denied Sekrit Service!Brad, damn it.

[alethialia]

No, YOU have to finish stuff and post more this year! You gave me license to pester you about that!

...and speaking of, when do I get a new draft?! (It's testament to my tiredness that I didn't poke you about this last night!)

But I do plan to get the damn thing done. Someday.

[alasse]

Ooooh, this was amazing to read. So interesting. Thank you very, very much for sharing!

[alethialia]

INORITE?! Awesome. And you are welcome.

[jean_iris]

Oh, this is brilliant. I knew Shoup's post already but didn't know Evan has responded to it. This is very useful to me as well, so thank you!

[alethialia]

You are very welcome!