Re: River's speech, well ... no, it does still make sense. The only thing wrong with it is that the Library episodes happened with Ten instead of Eleven. If we'd first been introduced to River that way, only the Doctor'd had the right face, it would make perfect sense. So it's not so much a logic fault of Moffat's as it is a casting glitch.
Ohhh the "Brave heart, Canton" line. Five also says it to Tegan a lot. I love that they've brought it back. <3
I don't think it's dependent on who played the Doctor. The point is that we've seen the Doctor go from knowing nothing about River to knowing SOMETHING about her. And from River's perspective, the Doctor went from knowing everything about her to knowing nothing about her to knowing various things about her. They're not approaching each other from opposite sides; they do remember the adventures they've had together.
It's a clever idea. It just doesn't match what we've seen.
And from River's perspective, the Doctor went from knowing everything about her to knowing nothing about her to knowing various things about her.
I'm... not quite sure at how you get that? From River's perspective, the Doctor went from knowing everything about her to knowing various things about her (but less and less each time she meets him, for the most part). The part where he knows nothing about her hasn't happened yet, from River's perspective.
It still doesn't make any sense to me. Every time they meet, they compare notes--has this happened yet? Do you remember that? And sometimes the Doctor knows and sometimes it hasn't happened yet for him. And the Doctor DOES remember her and the adventures he's been on with her.
I see that he's SUPPOSED to know less and less about her each time they meet, but I'm not seeing that that's how it is.
Taking a stab at the 'he knows her less' line--their 'meeting,' from the Doctor's position, is the same day as her death. So it's not that he's ... forgetting things about her or whatever, it's that as she is moving forward along her timeline (knowing more about the Doctor with every day), she is intersecting with earlier portions of his timeline, so that the Doctor she's meeting knows less every time she meets him. When she finally knows all she will ever know about the Doctor, she has finally met him for the first time (from his perspective).
*nods* That would make more sense. It's just...the line is very dramatic but doesn't fit show events very well. If River had said what you just said (and she could have deduced the bit about her death), it would have been much clearer.
From River's perspective: The first time she meets him, he knows everything about her. As they continue meeting out of order, though, he knows less and less, until finally, she meets Ten in the library, and he doesn't know her at all.
From the Doctor's perspective: See the above, but in reverse. Ten knew nothing about her when he met her, but she knew an awful lot about him. Next time he meets her, as Eleven, he knows her, but she definitely knows him better--note that from her perspective in "Flesh and Stone," the Pandorica has already happened. When he meets her the third time, in "The Pandorica Opens," she hasn't yet experienced the events of AToA/FaS. And so it goes. Each time he meets her, from his perspective, she knows him less and less. Each time she meets him, from her perspective, he knows her less and less.
When you explain it from the Doctor's perspective, it does make sense. I just needed explained the way that you and Gil did; the simple yet dramatic statement didn't work for me.
The thing that was bugging me about River is, they kept referring to her as Doctor Song, but in the episodes with the angels she was surprised to be called that. I thought this was before then, on her personal timeline, and thinking about it has got me all mixed up.
*joins you in your corner of confusion*
I thought Rory was acting a lot more - not secure, maybe, but more like he knew he was part of the team, which imo made up for it.
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Ohhh the "Brave heart, Canton" line. Five also says it to Tegan a lot. I love that they've brought it back. <3
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It's a clever idea. It just doesn't match what we've seen.
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I'm... not quite sure at how you get that? From River's perspective, the Doctor went from knowing everything about her to knowing various things about her (but less and less each time she meets him, for the most part). The part where he knows nothing about her hasn't happened yet, from River's perspective.
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I see that he's SUPPOSED to know less and less about her each time they meet, but I'm not seeing that that's how it is.
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Maybe I just think a bit more wibblywobbly than most.
Poor Doctor. Didn't get his fez.
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I think I'm the one out of sync, though. It looks like the sentence makes sense to everyone but me.
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From River's perspective: The first time she meets him, he knows everything about her. As they continue meeting out of order, though, he knows less and less, until finally, she meets Ten in the library, and he doesn't know her at all.
From the Doctor's perspective: See the above, but in reverse. Ten knew nothing about her when he met her, but she knew an awful lot about him. Next time he meets her, as Eleven, he knows her, but she definitely knows him better--note that from her perspective in "Flesh and Stone," the Pandorica has already happened. When he meets her the third time, in "The Pandorica Opens," she hasn't yet experienced the events of AToA/FaS. And so it goes. Each time he meets her, from his perspective, she knows him less and less. Each time she meets him, from her perspective, he knows her less and less.
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*joins you in your corner of confusion*
I thought Rory was acting a lot more - not secure, maybe, but more like he knew he was part of the team, which imo made up for it.
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