Episode Poll: 3.20 The Prom

[gabrielleabelle]

Guys, I need a poll today because my mood is gloomy so we're doing this thang early. I command you all to vote, comment, and entertain me. Go!

Next poll will be over the Graduation Day two-parter (MEGA POLL). Next week, I'm gonna be in England, and I honestly don't know if I'm gonna do the poll or not. I'm gonna have to wait till I get there to

Comments

[amycooper]

The fact that Angel thinks it is in his right to make those kinds of decisions for/without Buffy is so repulsively condescending and is exactly why I don't think they were good together...okay it is one of the reasons.

I don't think Joyce had the right to go in there and talk to Angel, but I can understand and even sympathize with her point of view. Funny how, after become a mother myself, I find myself doing that more and more.

[gabrielleabelle]

Heh. Yeah, it's an appropriate ending to the paternalistic B/A relationship, actually, though I think it does Buffy a disservice. With the way Angel frames it, she's left with a longing for this FORBIDDEN romance that, dangit, the world just won't let her have! When I think the reality is more than Angel, himself, needed space to grow and he was grasping at artificial obstacles to justify his decision. Throw in a pinch of "Angel knows best" and...yeah...

I don't think Joyce had the right to go in there and talk to Angel, but I can understand and even sympathize with her point of view. Funny how, after become a mother myself, I find myself doing that more and more.

:)

I can't get too mad at Joyce over it, to be honest. I think she should have talked to Buffy first, but I also think Angel was just a step away from ending the relationship on his own.

[angearia]

The fact that Angel thinks it is in his right to make those kinds of decisions for/without Buffy is so repulsively condescending and is exactly why I don't think they were good together...okay it is one of the reasons.

Agreed. It's the way everyone decides for Buffy that pisses me off the most. I mean, the girl already has limited choices because of her Slayer duties, but now she doesn't get a choice in her relationship -- her mother and Angel get to decide for her. Ugh.

[findmeneverland]

Oooh, good questions!

I'm gonna go ahead and not comment about any of the B/A questions, because oi, I don't even know. Such a minefield. Though I do have to say: breaking up with her in the sewer? REALLY, ANGEL? Dick move.

7--I totally cry every time Johnathan gives that speech, btw.

The first moment of "happy" that came to mind for me, for some reason, was the adorable touchy-feely "let's never fight again!" Scooby moment at the bottom of the elevator shaft in Primeval.

I think there are plenty more, though! You just have to dig a bit...haha.

8--Cordy, just because I love the sparkles and because of the whole sweetness with Xander thing. Okay, thinking about it, this whole episode makes me cry like a baby, I had forgotten!

9--I voted for Xander but really, they all looked GORGEOUS.

five stars for sure!

[gabrielleabelle]

In Angel's defense, he does try to put off the conversation until some other time, but Buffy forces his hand. The sewer was not his chosen setting.

7. Oh, good one! I had to choose "not sure" because I wanted to say there were later happy moments, but I couldn't come up with any examples.

And everybody looked so fab. I had trouble choosing (But I also went with Cordy and Xander). :)

[me_llamo_nic]

Gabs: The Champion of Wafflers

I hit "not sure" a few times.

Regarding #3: Something had to give. Their relationship was hitting walls and dead ends all over the place. Did they necessarily need to break-up? Who can say? However, it's not like it was out of line for Angel to end his relationship with Buffy, no matter what the reason. Ultimately though, I think Angel (perhaps even subconsciously) was rationalizing it to himself so that he didn't have to call the situation what it was: which was that their relationship wasn't working. Bottom line: something had to give and Angel decided to beat Buffy to the inevitable punch. I tend to think that was the wrong thing to do, healthy dialogue and joint decision making being the right thing.

And I gave this episode four stars. There so many fantastic moments, but Tucker was lame.

[gabrielleabelle]

Hey, I'm a question-asker, not a question-answerer!

[eowyn_315]

However, it's not like it was out of line for Angel to end his relationship with Buffy, no matter what the reason.

Hmmm. I was sort of thinking this, but couldn't quite get all the way there because of the particulars of Angel's decision. You're absolutely right that any person has the right to end a relationship at any time, for any reason, without the consent of the other person. Depending on the circumstances, it may be totally justified or kinda douchey, but no one should feel obligated to stay in a relationship if they don't want to.

And I don't even know that "I'm not good for you" is such a terrible reason to break up with someone. But it's like Angel GOES OUT OF HIS WAY to be patronizing, you know? He had plenty of legit reasons to break up, and yet he chooses the worst one to give to Buffy. It's like he wants us to hate him.

[me_llamo_nic]

It's like he wants us to hate him.

I think, however misguided, he chose his particular break-up tactics in an attempt to make it easier for Buffy. Like maybe he thought it would be easier for her if she could be angry out about it.

And Angel's just a patronizing kind of guy in most situations anyway. ... So there's that.

[angearia]

I'm sorry there is woe. This might cheer you up. *hugs*

And now I'll answer the poll in great detail!

I'm kinda okay with Joyce interfering, but not with her doing it behind Buffy's back. I think she should've tried to talk with Buffy first.

I think Joyce sped up Angel's leaving, but he was already starting to get antsy. If Angel hadn't broken up with Buffy and they were still together during Graduation Day, then I imagine Faith would've still poisoned him, Buffy would've still nearly killed herself to save Angel, and Angel would've freaked and ran off after that because he doesn't want to be the cause of Buffy dying.

Do you think Angel leaving Buffy at this point was ultimately a good thing for her?

Yes, though I think the best thing for her would've been if he'd never come back. His coming back and the on/off games they played and then his break-up -- it did a lot of damage which Buffy carries with her.

Do you think Angel leaving Buffy at this point was ultimately a good thing for Angel?Yes, I think he needed to

[gabrielleabelle]

Buffy-love pleases me. :)

Yes, though I think the best thing for her would've been if he'd never come back. His coming back and the on/off games they played and then his break-up -- it did a lot of damage which Buffy carries with her.

See, I wavered on this one. I think separating from Angel would be a good thing for her - on many different levels. But I think the wishy-washy way it was done leads to her massive Angel Issues (and abandonment issues) later on. I don't think the Healthy Alternative is for him to have stayed, but for him to not have framed the break up as being "for her own good".

I gave it 4 stars 'cause I love this episode. Even the Buffy/Angel drama gets to me. It's all good and then the Class Protector moment is PERFECT.

*nods*

[angearia]

I don't think the Healthy Alternative is for him to have stayed, but for him to not have framed the break up as being "for her own good".

Yeah, you're right. I think the healthy thing for Buffy would've been for her to realize on her own that he needs to go. Instead, Joyce and Angel make all the decisions for her. And it really plays up that she's totally blind and emotionally out of control -- leading to her Romeo-and-Julieting herself on his fangs (ok, I realize that's not a perfect metaphor...). I just hate how it's all about taking control away from her, taking away her choices. Maybe the way the choices are taken away from her is why she's so willing to give her life for him, but still I wish she could've come to her own conclusions about Angel needing to leave. Instead, his departure and even Riley's later on just end up giving her major issues. Both guys get to make the strong final statements on their relationship and I want Buffy to reclaim her agency.

[gabrielleabelle]

Very much. I'm not sure whether to glare at Angel or the writers for that one, though. On the one hand, I think it's in character for Buffy to hold onto Angel so tightly. On the other, with "graduation" being the major theme at the end of S3, it's frustrating that Buffy doesn't willingly choose her graduation from Angel. It's foisted upon her, unlike her leaving the Council or fighting the Mayor. It's like a tiny step back in her big step forward.

Maybe that's the point? I don't know. It's disheartening, especially as it later becomes a pattern and plays into Buffy's big abandonment issues.

[frelling_tralk]

Huh I'm surprise Buffy isn't in the lead, I always thought that she looked gorgeous at the Prom. Angel looked super-awkward to me at the end there though, which kind of took away from the tux effect as he wasn't exactly looking suave at that point!

[angearia]

She does look especially gorgeous. She's glowing. (Probably 'cause her tan was radioactive...)

[gabrielleabelle]

Oh. I don't like Buffy's dress.

But she does get all glow-y when she gets the Class Protector award! :)

[eowyn_315]

I don't like Buffy's dress.

Me either! It kind of looks like she just wrapped herself up in a sheet. A sheet made of quality fabric, but still.