my calendar says I was overdue for some tl;dr navel-gazing.

[furiosity]

So I was writing this thing about my favourite childhood books for scrtkpr, went off on a tangent, and started waxing poetic about slurs/offensive words and the defence of their use under the "free speech" umbrella. I'm actually not even sure any more how the tangent happened, because one moment, I was sitting there describing the plot and characters of «

Comments

[elizardbits]

WHY ARE YOU SO WISE ALL THE TIME SRSLY

data point: all the kids under 5 that I know (and alas there are many) swear like tiny sailors. It is probably the most interesting thing about them.

[furiosity]

I AM NOT WISE I AM ONLY LEARNING [/OBSCURE SOVIET FILM REFERENCE]

The kids you know sound like a lot more fun than the kids I know! (Except godbaby. :3)

[hamsterwoman]

:D! *gets your obscure Soviet film reference

[furiosity]

:DDD! I miss that movie. :3

ohgod I swear WAY more in Russian than I do in English. Part of it is just that my parents were so anti-swearing that my rebellious phase obviously included learning to swear like a sailor, and listening to Сектор газа (the band) fleshed out my early slang-education quite nicely. I am actually in awe of the breadth of the Russian curse-word vocabulary -- with the appropriate context, you can carry on an entire conversation in nothing but curse words and their variations and make yourself understood. Russian swear words are definitely closer to my heart than English ones, and you can get ridiculously creative with them. It pleases me that they can mean different things depending on context. E.g. "похудел, но без буквы п и буквы д" [XDDD] generally means astonishment, but it can be of any gradation between the good kind of astonishment and the bad -- but it can also mean that someone has lost all sense of propriety and is behaving impudently, or that someone has lost control of their senses [rare]. I also

[chuffing]

all i have to say is fuck this shit right in the fucking goddamn cunty ear.

good post is good.

[furiosity]

fucking shit and its ear, always getting all up in my fucking business and shit!

XD

[chuffing]

motherfuck that twatting shit. for chrissakes. it's a bunch of bullshit, for fuck's sake.

[karaz]

I'm just calling you an asshole for saying offensive shit. Subtle difference. Calling you an asshole in response to your crap is covered under free speech, too.

THIS.

I can subscribe to the idea that we have some sort of hard-wiring that causes us to fear 'the unknown'. It would definitely make sense in a primitive society wherein conformity ensures survival. However, I can't imagine what sort of asshat would champion themselves stuck in a primitive society mindset when 'survival' is no longer a factor.

As you said, nature can only be blamed so far. Curiosity abounds when safety is no longer a pressing concern. Curiosity leads to knowledge which erases the 'unknown' factor. The problem, of course, is that people use this inherent fear to quell curiosity. They use false information to procure fear. "These people mean to harm you/your loved ones!" is always followed by a long list of 'facts' from a trusted source in one's own community. They are using that bit of nature against us by saying: THIS IS ABOUT SURVIVAL. I absolutely

[karaz]

And I totally went off on a tangent. Sorry. >.>

[furiosity]

Hahaha, no worries. Tangents are pretty cool IMO >_>

[furiosity]

I think the whole "fear of the unknown" thing is a stock phrase a lot of people buy into without actually examining what it really means. I think -- and I base this largely on my favoured area of research at university -- it's uncertainty that we fear and try to avoid, because uncertainty is uncomfortable for most humans, and nothing is as uncertain as an unknown quantity. We fear that which we do not know or see because we have no idea what it might mean to our continued existence, and we fear change for the same reason. The unknown doesn't terrify me, for example (I actually find it kind of exciting, though not if it may possibly involve physical pain) but I am certainly very uncomfortable with change; I get angry and defensive when someone attempts to make me change what I do not wish to change, especially if their reason for wishing that change is based on wanting something for themselves (but I don't do well with "this change will be for your own good", either

[teaberryblue]

I've been thinking a lot about words like "moron" and "idiot" and "stupid" lately, and words that are not universally found to be ableist but can frequently be seen that way, and how I feel about them in terms of these kinds of arguments.

Retarded is a pretty clear-cut one, to me, because there's a history of it being used to refer to people with a specific set of disabilities in a derogatory manner for long enough for the word's history in our cultural vocabulary to be unquestionably tainted

[furiosity]

I actually don't think "stupid" an ableist word, not any more than "intelligence" is -- if it's used against a disabled person to describe their disability, then of course it's harmful and offensive, but when used against someone without disabilities it simply means "ignorant" to me. Ignorance is not a disability. But then again, I do value intelligence, though my concept of it is rather more fluid than MENSA's.

So yeah, I hear you. Very often I will want to be like "oh, you IDIOT!" and then I'll be like "no, no, that's bad, how about, YOU ASSHAT!" but "asshat" to me implies a low level of malice in the object of my scorn that "idiot" doesn't really carry, and "loser", while carrying no inherent malice, is not harsh enough. But for me the bottom line is that it's really not the end of the world if I'm unable to express my feelings as precisely as I would like to do, using just the vocabulary available to me. I don't like not being able to do so, but I am learning at least not to mind.

[masakochan]

I actually don't think "stupid" an ableist word, not any more than "intelligence" is -- if it's used against a disabled person to describe their disability, then of course it's harmful and offensive, but when used against someone without disabilities it simply means "ignorant" to me.

This. I still remember someone unfollowing me on tumblr because I'd reblogged a post from stfuconservatives, and the most recent viewable comment on it was someone saying that Republicans are stupid- which they took as being ableist.

Which, I guess it all comes down to how others view the word, but if it means I can't use 'stupid' anymore- then I guess I get to be more creative when I'm calling someone an ignorant ass. x]

[arabwel]

Why are you in my brain again putting my flailythoughts into words? cause i have to say this is pretty much what i have been thinking too...

When people say language evolves, well, why not help it to evolve to a better direction? the language out there is amazing and beautiful and has so many words you can use to describe things. Like my avorite general purpose insult these days... muppet.

[furiosity]

I know, right! Every time the "language evolves" argument comes up, I just want to grind my teeth, because it's always used to say stuff like "language has evolved since when this word was offensive, so the word is not offensive now!" Except for the part where the word IS still offensive. Grargh. Especially since the evolution of language is hardly the result of conscious effort on the parts of speakers, and a lot of offensive words exist because language evolves.

Ha, muppet is an excellent insult! :D

[arabwel]

Indeed... like the origins of slut - if it hadn't gained all the negative baggage and promscuity bs, it would be "only" a gewndered equivalent of slob where the iffyness would come just from the genderedness, not the wholeuntidy thing. but because it has evolved, it is far, far, far worse than that.

Muppet is a grea nsult *nods sagely* it is the kind that can describe anyone from people you want to set on fire to people you're exasperated with and wnat to smooch anyway... (the person I most often call a fucking muppet is the infamous Scruffy One...)