giant comment part 1nicole_anellMarch 3 2009, 21:54:06 UTC
I actually have no problem with character-driven storylines that don't move the plot much when it's MY girlfriend in the spotlight. *hides from nicole_anell* Why hide? That was MY POINT EXACTLY. Hee.
I couldn't agree more on Boomer and Adama. I'm absolutely furious with Boomer, but I cannot get over the fact that if had she made a real, true effort to redeem herself, they probably would've killed her. (But I love to imagine there was some Cylon version of Lee Adama waiting on the baseship to make an elegant speech in her defense, rather than a three-second court martial like Cain was so fond of.) Ick. The rebel Cylons wanting vengeance against her is the same nasty "the truth is told by those left standing" logic that's been defining this entire season from the moment Zarek said it. I said this in a comment in falafel_musing's defense of Boomer, but where do they get the cajones to call siding with Cavil "treason"? They're the ones who rebelled and broke ranks with the Cylon hierarchy. Boomer didn't betray them; she just sat on the other
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Re: giant comment part 1frolicndetourMarch 4 2009, 16:04:45 UTC
Your point is made. *g*
But I love to imagine there was some Cylon version of Lee Adama waiting on the baseship to make an elegant speech in her defense, rather than a three-second court martial like Cain was so fond of.)
Heh - I like this idea a lot. I mean, even we toaster-lovers have to admit the Cylon version of the "forgiven!" speech would be much more impressive than poor Lee's. ;)
I wonder what he'd say if the rebels wanted to bring their long shiny robot arm of justice down on Athena for that time she put two holes in Natalie
Oh My God I had not even thought of that. *bounces up and down in rage* Of course, he actually told Athena that the worst thing about what she'd done was that she broke a promise to HIM. So now that he's over that, he'd probably be like "what's your problem with Athena? It's okay! I forgave her! Nice of you to think of me and all
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giant comment part 2, now with more Cylon cheerleadingnicole_anellMarch 3 2009, 21:55:47 UTC
I thought their putting pictures on the Memorial Wall next to those who died in their genocide was in poor tasteTotal side rant ahead: This is the one thing I really disagree with you on. You're not the first person who's said it, but -- not surprisingly -- I just don't feel the "poor taste" factor at all. I suppose it's just one of those divisive moments in the show. (And another chapter in the great debate on how culpable every single Cylon is in the holocaust.) There seems to be this feeling that they just don't have the *right* to put their pictures alongside the people who once died at Cylon hands, even now that they're dying too, even now that they're flying CAP alongside the same pilots. Because they all still look alike, and it's the same faces that bad people had. Maybe they even *are* the same bad people, in some weird robot memory-sharing way
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Re: giant comment part 2, now with more Cylon cheerleadinglyssieMarch 4 2009, 03:50:52 UTC
But these are Cylons who died ON THEIR SIDE. If they are mortal and loved and missed, I think that wall is *exactly* where they should be. To me that image was worth a thousand scenes of Adama pouting over the ominous black goo. I can't think of a more fitting, touching, hope-inspiring display of a "blended" Galactica than shared grief.
All of this, yes. But if we could have Eights and Sixes having bitchy conversations about that creepy old man who won't stop staring at them, I'd prefer it to Adama.
Re: giant comment part 2, now with more Cylon cheerleadingfrolicndetourMarch 4 2009, 19:48:07 UTC
But these are Cylons who died ON THEIR SIDE. If they are mortal and loved and missed, I think that wall is *exactly* where they should be. To me that image was worth a thousand scenes of Adama pouting over the ominous black goo. I can't think of a more fitting, touching, hope-inspiring display of a "blended" Galactica than shared grief.
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Damn you're good. ;) Hmm, you've halfway managed to change my mind on this. I guess my two reservations are:
(And another chapter in the great debate on how culpable every single Cylon is in the holocaust.)
I've assumed that since the Cylons only recently became mortal, that the rebels are actually the same people who carried out the holocaust, not just that they look like them or share memories with them. Some of them might have resurrected a time or two, but they're the same individuals. Of course, we don't know whether they've actually been making new copies all along, and if they have, if some of the rebels just weren't around four years ago, but I've been assuming they all were, and
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Re: giant comment part 2, now with more Cylon cheerleadingnicole_anellMarch 5 2009, 22:58:57 UTC
I do agree that the alliance is all about pragmatism and necessity, and I think that *is* more believable and interesting than a sudden interest on both sides to hold hands and sing. And yeah, that's weirdly even better, since the last time the Cylons wanted to do that was New Caprica. O_o
What I would buy is if Athena or any one of the Five had died, and the humans had put their picture up on the Memorial Wall -because I would absolutely believe that - and the Cylons had started going there to mourn them too, and it had gradually evolved from there.Well yeah, but time constraints? :) Lord knows I want *even more Cylon drama* on my screen, but I understand them skipping a few steps, because I just don't feel the mourning itself is too much of a stretch from the way we've seen Cylons relate to each other before, and the awareness of their mortality now
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I have no problem with any character episode about anyone's girlfriend as long as the episode is done well. Which this one was, but last week was...I dunno. Not so much. Mainly cus of weird arbitrary plot crap and because they chose my girlfriend to screw over. So perhaps it should be, "I'm okay with well-done character episodes about anyone's girlfriend unless they're MEAN and it's about MY ONE."
But, um. Back to this episode, which was beautiful.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. I tend to side more with nicole_anell about the memorial wall because yeah, it's about the Cylon who've died since defecting and fighting against Cavil and his forces, on the same side as the humans, so...it seems right to me, but that's about as far as I can articulate it
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I do know that I'm cranky I can't enjoy his recaps anymore though. :(
Oh, me too. I used to really like them, right up until about the same point. The recaps just push a lot of my rage buttons now and it makes me sad, because I don't quite know how I ended up disagreeing with him on almost everything so quickly. Especially since that was where I started my obsession with this show in the first place.
Especially since that was where I started my obsession with this show in the first place.
Me too! His "Black Market" - which I actually read before seeing any episodes, because I was looking into the show and I find the lower-grade episode recaps tend to be the funniest - was actually one of the things that convinced me to watch, because he was so outraged by the drop in quality I thought the typical product MUST be good.
For me it's just that Jacob's become so bitter and down on other fans. For somebody who gushes over the show and loves many of the same aspects I do, I think he has such a pompous, mean-spirited attitude about it lately. He doesn't seem to get that people, both within the show and in fandom, can disagree with him without being assholes. (Maybe it turns me off extra because I see some of it in myself? I dunno. But I TRY not to bitch all the time about how Fandom Doesn't Understand My the Cylons' Brilliance.)
Also, the long-winded trips down Mythology/Philosophy Lane got old. Talk about "fitting square pegs into round holes". It's just whatever he wants to talk about this week, regardless of what happened in the episode.
I feel bad saying all this 'cause I used to consider him a pretty awesome guy and we'd traded PMs and everything, but... gah, this season's recaps just got frustrating.
I've been a fan of Weddle & Thompson since their work on Deep Space Nine and the fact we've seen their final BSG episode makes it really feel like we're nearing the end. They've done some amazing work - and tend to think they have been the strongest writers on the series, even beyond Ron Moore
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I didn't realize they'd worked with Ron on Deep Space Nine, too! That's awesome. And wikipedia tells me that they also wrote Hand of God and both parts of Exodus.
I hope they let us know one way or the other whether the Eight lived! Either way, he's got to be found out, right? Gah, that's not going to be good. I wish he'd gone with her. :/
Plot dump two weeks back was fine, but really seeing the characters deal with their emotions WHILE THE PLOT HAPPENS was lovely.
Yes yes yes. I get the impression that some people are upset because Daniel being Kara's father has been so widely speculated, so if that was indeed the big revelation, it doesn't feel like much of a revelation. But that's if you're in fandom; it was only mentioned once in season two that Kara's Dad was a musician, in a throw-away scene. So those of us who leapt to the conclusion that artist-Daniel was Kara's father - or at least thought of the possibility - are the true believers. Sometimes, they have to slow down for the casual viewers. ;)
I actually had a few email exchanges with Bradley Thompson during the final season of Deep Space Nine - mostly about writing, but some of it was trying to get him to spill spoilers for the last run of episodes.
Their first credit on DS9 was a story they pitched - and Ron Moore wrote the teleplay. (Also they met in an acting class while they were at film school. In the same acting class... Richard Hatch!)
I hope they let us know one way or the other whether the Eight lived! Either way, he's got to be found out, right?
He has to be found out. THE ADMIRAL WILL NOT BE HAPPY AND MAKE THIS A BETRAYAL OF HIS TRUST! :P
Sometimes, they have to slow down for the casual viewers. ;)
Hehehe. Yeah. But I didn't feel beaten over the head with it at all.
*sniffles*
If this show goes out on top, I'm going to have to re-order my Favourite Series Ever list. (Although, to be honest, Ron would have to righteously screw up the finale for me not to re-order that list!)
I'm actually impressed that Boomer didn't kill her; it would have bought her more time. I KNOW! I'm sort of relieved, in fact... relieved and surprised. Though having Athena alive to send out the alarm was probably useful as a plot point.
So I still find Boomer a sympathetic character; even if she's a sympathetic antagonist. Ironic that she did exactly what Athena told a lot of other Eights: pick a side and stick with it.
Yes to the irritatingly human-like cylon death penalty. Makes me sort of wish they still thought of themselves as being the 'better' children of God. Because even if I go for the death penalty for some things IRL, nothing Boomer had done warranted it so far. And she could have avoided the threat of it by not saving Ellen Tigh... though it was all part of her scheme, so.
OTOH, I am completely fine with Laura Roslin being her pragmatic, strategic genius self. ;) Yes, I wish she'd shown more compassion for Tyrol, but that's like wishing Kara had just told Gaeta she was sorry already; it would be nice, but then
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Ironic that she did exactly what Athena told a lot of other Eights: pick a side and stick with it.
That's a REALLY good point. And another (ironic) similarity between Boomer and Athena. They're the non-flakey Eights. Maybe it's those human memories they implanted in them. ;)
Makes me sort of wish they still thought of themselves as being the 'better' children of God. Because even if I go for the death penalty for some things IRL, nothing Boomer had done warranted it so far.
I totally agree - all she did was to vote. So it makes it particularly sad and wrong that their first act of representative democracy was to demand her released for execution. (OT: I'm against the death penalty in real life because it seems like, as in this case, the people who most deserve it =/= the people who are actually eligible for it, at least not often enough. /OT)
And she could have avoided the threat of it by not saving Ellen Tigh... though it was all part of her scheme, so.I don't even care, because they had no way of knowing that! Laura Roslin -
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Comments 59
Why hide? That was MY POINT EXACTLY. Hee.
I couldn't agree more on Boomer and Adama. I'm absolutely furious with Boomer, but I cannot get over the fact that if had she made a real, true effort to redeem herself, they probably would've killed her. (But I love to imagine there was some Cylon version of Lee Adama waiting on the baseship to make an elegant speech in her defense, rather than a three-second court martial like Cain was so fond of.) Ick. The rebel Cylons wanting vengeance against her is the same nasty "the truth is told by those left standing" logic that's been defining this entire season from the moment Zarek said it. I said this in a comment in falafel_musing's defense of Boomer, but where do they get the cajones to call siding with Cavil "treason"? They're the ones who rebelled and broke ranks with the Cylon hierarchy. Boomer didn't betray them; she just sat on the other ( ... )
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But I love to imagine there was some Cylon version of Lee Adama waiting on the baseship to make an elegant speech in her defense, rather than a three-second court martial like Cain was so fond of.)
Heh - I like this idea a lot. I mean, even we toaster-lovers have to admit the Cylon version of the "forgiven!" speech would be much more impressive than poor Lee's. ;)
I wonder what he'd say if the rebels wanted to bring their long shiny robot arm of justice down on Athena for that time she put two holes in Natalie
Oh My God I had not even thought of that. *bounces up and down in rage* Of course, he actually told Athena that the worst thing about what she'd done was that she broke a promise to HIM. So now that he's over that, he'd probably be like "what's your problem with Athena? It's okay! I forgave her! Nice of you to think of me and all ( ... )
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All of this, yes. But if we could have Eights and Sixes having bitchy conversations about that creepy old man who won't stop staring at them, I'd prefer it to Adama.
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Damn you're good. ;) Hmm, you've halfway managed to change my mind on this. I guess my two reservations are:
(And another chapter in the great debate on how culpable every single Cylon is in the holocaust.)
I've assumed that since the Cylons only recently became mortal, that the rebels are actually the same people who carried out the holocaust, not just that they look like them or share memories with them. Some of them might have resurrected a time or two, but they're the same individuals. Of course, we don't know whether they've actually been making new copies all along, and if they have, if some of the rebels just weren't around four years ago, but I've been assuming they all were, and ( ... )
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What I would buy is if Athena or any one of the Five had died, and the humans had put their picture up on the Memorial Wall -because I would absolutely believe that - and the Cylons had started going there to mourn them too, and it had gradually evolved from there.Well yeah, but time constraints? :) Lord knows I want *even more Cylon drama* on my screen, but I understand them skipping a few steps, because I just don't feel the mourning itself is too much of a stretch from the way we've seen Cylons relate to each other before, and the awareness of their mortality now ( ... )
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But, um. Back to this episode, which was beautiful.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. I tend to side more with nicole_anell about the memorial wall because yeah, it's about the Cylon who've died since defecting and fighting against Cavil and his forces, on the same side as the humans, so...it seems right to me, but that's about as far as I can articulate it ( ... )
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Oh, me too. I used to really like them, right up until about the same point. The recaps just push a lot of my rage buttons now and it makes me sad, because I don't quite know how I ended up disagreeing with him on almost everything so quickly. Especially since that was where I started my obsession with this show in the first place.
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Me too! His "Black Market" - which I actually read before seeing any episodes, because I was looking into the show and I find the lower-grade episode recaps tend to be the funniest - was actually one of the things that convinced me to watch, because he was so outraged by the drop in quality I thought the typical product MUST be good.
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Also, the long-winded trips down Mythology/Philosophy Lane got old. Talk about "fitting square pegs into round holes". It's just whatever he wants to talk about this week, regardless of what happened in the episode.
I feel bad saying all this 'cause I used to consider him a pretty awesome guy and we'd traded PMs and everything, but... gah, this season's recaps just got frustrating.
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I hope they let us know one way or the other whether the Eight lived! Either way, he's got to be found out, right? Gah, that's not going to be good. I wish he'd gone with her. :/
Plot dump two weeks back was fine, but really seeing the characters deal with their emotions WHILE THE PLOT HAPPENS was lovely.
Yes yes yes. I get the impression that some people are upset because Daniel being Kara's father has been so widely speculated, so if that was indeed the big revelation, it doesn't feel like much of a revelation. But that's if you're in fandom; it was only mentioned once in season two that Kara's Dad was a musician, in a throw-away scene. So those of us who leapt to the conclusion that artist-Daniel was Kara's father - or at least thought of the possibility - are the true believers. Sometimes, they have to slow down for the casual viewers. ;)
. Yes, we've still got ( ... )
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Their first credit on DS9 was a story they pitched - and Ron Moore wrote the teleplay. (Also they met in an acting class while they were at film school. In the same acting class... Richard Hatch!)
I hope they let us know one way or the other whether the Eight lived! Either way, he's got to be found out, right?
He has to be found out. THE ADMIRAL WILL NOT BE HAPPY AND MAKE THIS A BETRAYAL OF HIS TRUST! :P
Sometimes, they have to slow down for the casual viewers. ;)
Hehehe. Yeah. But I didn't feel beaten over the head with it at all.
*sniffles*
If this show goes out on top, I'm going to have to re-order my Favourite Series Ever list. (Although, to be honest, Ron would have to righteously screw up the finale for me not to re-order that list!)
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I KNOW! I'm sort of relieved, in fact... relieved and surprised. Though having Athena alive to send out the alarm was probably useful as a plot point.
So I still find Boomer a sympathetic character; even if she's a sympathetic antagonist.
Ironic that she did exactly what Athena told a lot of other Eights: pick a side and stick with it.
Yes to the irritatingly human-like cylon death penalty. Makes me sort of wish they still thought of themselves as being the 'better' children of God. Because even if I go for the death penalty for some things IRL, nothing Boomer had done warranted it so far. And she could have avoided the threat of it by not saving Ellen Tigh... though it was all part of her scheme, so.
OTOH, I am completely fine with Laura Roslin being her pragmatic, strategic genius self. ;) Yes, I wish she'd shown more compassion for Tyrol, but that's like wishing Kara had just told Gaeta she was sorry already; it would be nice, but then ( ... )
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That's a REALLY good point. And another (ironic) similarity between Boomer and Athena. They're the non-flakey Eights. Maybe it's those human memories they implanted in them. ;)
Makes me sort of wish they still thought of themselves as being the 'better' children of God. Because even if I go for the death penalty for some things IRL, nothing Boomer had done warranted it so far.
I totally agree - all she did was to vote. So it makes it particularly sad and wrong that their first act of representative democracy was to demand her released for execution. (OT: I'm against the death penalty in real life because it seems like, as in this case, the people who most deserve it =/= the people who are actually eligible for it, at least not often enough. /OT)
And she could have avoided the threat of it by not saving Ellen Tigh... though it was all part of her scheme, so.I don't even care, because they had no way of knowing that! Laura Roslin - ( ... )
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