See, I also love your whole interpretation of the ep and I think all that stuff was there *also* and that's why part of me is okay with it (except I CANNOT STOP CRYING, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO ME SHOW), but part of me is wary about the underlying themes of it.
Also it's not as easy as "well they could save them both because they'll come back for the other one in 36 years". Older Amy does say repeatedly that the decades she spent there all alone were hellish and awful. All the knowledge and survival skills and badassery she picked up along the way, she could STILL have in 36 years without younger Amy getting trapped in this horrible place fighting robots every day and painting a smiley-face on a volleyball armless robot just to stay sane. *Logically* I think it's fair to want to spare the younger, crying Amy they just lost from that fate, and give her those years with Rory, and older Amy ultimately accepts that in spite of her very understandable survival instinct. And I love everything you said about her cynicism and how she
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I ended up watching the late broadcast on BBCA so I was tired and only half paying attention and need to watch again, but the episode rubbed me the wrong way. Some of my unease was due to what you mentioned, but I also was disturbed that Amy was in need of saving, again. And the Doctor failed her, again. And Amy and Rory were separated for a very long period of time (at least from the perspective of one of them), again. And that devastating situation was eradicated....again. How many times is Moffat going to fall back on the dame frakking scenario? I love these characters, but I'm growing tired of the show and the same old same old.
part onenicole_anellSeptember 11 2011, 17:42:33 UTC
The Doctor was utterly creepy in this episode. SEE, THIS IS MY "IS THIS WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE A TEN FAN?" REACTION. Oh my god. I hate him so much right now. I did not know I could hate Eleven to this degree. FEELINGS. Logically I understand why he saw it as a necessary evil, that his priority was to save young!Amy so she'd never have to go through all that, *I get it*, but the episode really did set you up to sympathize with the older Amy who is a person and Amy and he lied to her and let her die. FUCKITY FUCK. Also? It's disturbing on so many levels that he put Rory in the position he did. I mean, I'm so creeped out in a meta way that he kept trying to make it a "you have to choose the fate of your wife" thing, which made me want to punch the TV. And I'm so angry in a non-meta character way that he was trying to push this horrific ~choice~ onto him and make him culpable in it, and *bless Rory's heart* for crying and calling him on it and needing the sacrificed Amy to tell him it's okay not to open the door
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part twonicole_anellSeptember 11 2011, 17:43:51 UTC
And I never thought I'd feel this way but:
1. As much as I love Amy/Rory, having slept on it I realized why all the declarations of love and "he's beautiful on the inside" stuff is starting to tire me, and it's because I'm tired of being TOLD every three weeks how much they love each other, and specifically how much Amy loves Rory and how awesome he is. I know that Rory is awesome. I've been *shown* it in previous episodes. What the ship keeps doing lately, much more sloppily, is keep reinforcing it through long unnecessary speeches that are almost making me resent Rory and NOT think he's awesome. Which is infuriating because there are still plenty of moments that make me go "Rooory!" *cuddle* But then when Amy goes into her 90th spiel about how unexpectedly perfect and amazing he is, I see where the whole "Rory is a Nice Guy" thing comes from, because the show feels like it has to remind us over and OVER that the sweet nerdy guy is a badass and got the girl and let's take another minute to appreciate him some more. And I *hate*
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Re: part twofrolicndetourSeptember 11 2011, 18:59:33 UTC
Ack, that was meant to be a reply to someone else. I do miss my paid account at times!
I do find the constant protestations of Rory's perfection to be getting old, but from what I've seen of Who fandom I thought it was more that fandom didn't think *Amy* was good enough for Rory, so this was Moffat's way of saying no look, she does appreciate him as he deserves! Of course, my only exposure to Who fandom was TWoP, which loved Rory and hated Amy...
Re: part twofrolicndetourSeptember 11 2011, 18:53:59 UTC
But then when Amy goes into her 90th spiel about how unexpectedly perfect and amazing he is, I see where the whole "Rory is a Nice Guy" thing comes from, because the show feels like it has to remind us over and OVER that the sweet nerdy guy is a badass and got the girl and let's take another minute to appreciate him some more. And I *hate* that they're doing that instead of just letting Rory be Rory, the adorkable hapless guy who lived and died (a lot) for Amy and I APPRECIATED HIM JUST FINE.
Yes, this. The way I see it, if this makes sense, is: Rory, the character, is not a "Nice Guy.: But Rory represents the way the Nice Guy views himself. So the 90th spiel about his perfection is getting tiresome, and almost like Amy's being, not *punished* exactly for not always appreciating him enough, but ... implicitly scolded, maybe? Heh, I'm so articulate. :P
I have no doubt Rory feels the same way about Amy, but I can't imagine him being made to give similar speeches all the time.
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Also it's not as easy as "well they could save them both because they'll come back for the other one in 36 years". Older Amy does say repeatedly that the decades she spent there all alone were hellish and awful. All the knowledge and survival skills and badassery she picked up along the way, she could STILL have in 36 years without younger Amy getting trapped in this horrible place fighting robots every day and painting a smiley-face on a volleyball armless robot just to stay sane. *Logically* I think it's fair to want to spare the younger, crying Amy they just lost from that fate, and give her those years with Rory, and older Amy ultimately accepts that in spite of her very understandable survival instinct. And I love everything you said about her cynicism and how she ( ... )
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SEE, THIS IS MY "IS THIS WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE A TEN FAN?" REACTION. Oh my god. I hate him so much right now. I did not know I could hate Eleven to this degree. FEELINGS. Logically I understand why he saw it as a necessary evil, that his priority was to save young!Amy so she'd never have to go through all that, *I get it*, but the episode really did set you up to sympathize with the older Amy who is a person and Amy and he lied to her and let her die. FUCKITY FUCK. Also? It's disturbing on so many levels that he put Rory in the position he did. I mean, I'm so creeped out in a meta way that he kept trying to make it a "you have to choose the fate of your wife" thing, which made me want to punch the TV. And I'm so angry in a non-meta character way that he was trying to push this horrific ~choice~ onto him and make him culpable in it, and *bless Rory's heart* for crying and calling him on it and needing the sacrificed Amy to tell him it's okay not to open the door ( ... )
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1. As much as I love Amy/Rory, having slept on it I realized why all the declarations of love and "he's beautiful on the inside" stuff is starting to tire me, and it's because I'm tired of being TOLD every three weeks how much they love each other, and specifically how much Amy loves Rory and how awesome he is. I know that Rory is awesome. I've been *shown* it in previous episodes. What the ship keeps doing lately, much more sloppily, is keep reinforcing it through long unnecessary speeches that are almost making me resent Rory and NOT think he's awesome. Which is infuriating because there are still plenty of moments that make me go "Rooory!" *cuddle* But then when Amy goes into her 90th spiel about how unexpectedly perfect and amazing he is, I see where the whole "Rory is a Nice Guy" thing comes from, because the show feels like it has to remind us over and OVER that the sweet nerdy guy is a badass and got the girl and let's take another minute to appreciate him some more. And I *hate* ( ... )
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I do find the constant protestations of Rory's perfection to be getting old, but from what I've seen of Who fandom I thought it was more that fandom didn't think *Amy* was good enough for Rory, so this was Moffat's way of saying no look, she does appreciate him as he deserves! Of course, my only exposure to Who fandom was TWoP, which loved Rory and hated Amy...
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Yes, this. The way I see it, if this makes sense, is: Rory, the character, is not a "Nice Guy.: But Rory represents the way the Nice Guy views himself. So the 90th spiel about his perfection is getting tiresome, and almost like Amy's being, not *punished* exactly for not always appreciating him enough, but ... implicitly scolded, maybe? Heh, I'm so articulate. :P
I have no doubt Rory feels the same way about Amy, but I can't imagine him being made to give similar speeches all the time.
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