A suggestion for discussion

[fpb]

In the last decade or two, the United Kingdom has produced two tremendous cultural phenomena that have gone around the world: the Harry Potter series and the Wallace and Gromit animated movies. SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION: Do they have anything in common, and do they have anything in common with other British successes such as the Dr.Who franchise or

Comments

[un_crayon_rouge]

Well, there's at least one tremendous cultural phenomenon that I've missed, because I know nothing about Wallace and Gromit. As for the other things, I'd go for the simple theory and say people love good stories that don't assume everyone's an idiot (which is what often makes USA-products in these genres so unpalatable.)

Off the top of my head. Oh, and in case I don't get a chance later and/or forget to post about it: Happy New Year, with lots of the good stuff and none of the crappy.

[fpb]

I'm sorry you missed W&G, but just go and look them up - there are likely to be postings in places like YouTube. Their animator, Nick Parks, has had a virtual stranglehold on the animations short Oscar prize; every time he produced a Wallace and Gromit short (30 minutes each), he walked off with it. We are talking about genius here, and genius of a quality that is difficult to exactly quantify, which is why I would like to see it discussed.

[thefish30]

Two observations on British cultural phenomena in general.

1. One of the things that's so appealing about British humor is that whereas American humor from Ralph Kramden to Jerry Lewis down to Adam Sandler is mostly about one person acting stupidly in the everyday world, British humor in my experience is mostly about the one sane person in a world gone mad. Hence where American comedy is a repetitive parade of one (male) idiot after another, with British humor, from Monty Python to Douglas Adams you have an infinity of Bizzaro worlds to draw on, where we find ourselves in sympathy with the protagonist, instead of superior to him. With Gromit we delightedly find that the dog is our everyman, shaking his head equally at human obliviousness and ovine nonsense.

I'm not so sure that the humor in Harry Potter (not its main point, anyway) draws on this source, but it is certainly congenial to it.

Eek, must run. Point two will have to come later.

Bri

[fpb]

A very interesting point. It may have something to do with the fact that two out of four of the great acts of the golden age of black and white movie comedy - Charlie Chaplin and Laurel and Hardy; in which Stan Laurel was the leader - are in fact British; and they are about sane people in a bizarro world. One remembers Ollie's frustrated glower and tapping fingers, as goo drips down on his face, even more than the gags themselves, however great. And I think you have put the finger on what is that bothers me about a lot of American comedy (and, though you may not know this, about some Italian comedy as well): the emphasis on individual absurdity or idiocy. In some cases, such as Disney's Goofy, you are positively being encouraged to find mental deficiency funny.

Another point that occurs to me is that the dog being the one sane person actually is something that happened in one of the greatest pieces of home-made American humour, Peanuts. Charles M. Schulz explained that the origin of the character of Snoopy was in the impression

[3secondfish]

while the humour is not primary in Harry Potter, it is essential
It seemed moreso in the first couple of books, when Rowling seemed to be writing for a younger audience. She was trying harder to be silly, then.

But this kind of funny different from what Americans think of humor, though. I would call it whimsy, an altogether more subtle beast. It floats through, tweaks your nose, and zips away again, and then when it looks back and winks at you, you're so surprised you can't help but laugh. American humor flings a pie in your face, and then conks you with the can of whipped cream if you don't laugh quickly enough. :P

And I would say that the way these two things, danger and humour, fit together so seamlessly in both masterpieces is that both fit the idea of a slightly crazed, unpredictable world.That's the cleverness of Rowling's world. It has a lovely rosy gloss to it, and we delight along with Harry at each discovery, such as the mysterious silvery instruments in Dumbledore's office. Nothing need be difficult because magic is

[inverarity]

There's a temptation in the U.S., of course, to think that everything British is better. You're probably aware that to the American ear, any British accent (regardless of region or class -- which most Yanks can't distinguish anyway) automatically brings to mind tea with the Queen. We're proud of our revolution, but we still can't get over our colonial roots. So that's one reason why Americans love British shows so much.

I think Harry Potter's British setting was part of the magic that captured an American audience. I don't know that Wallace and Gromit is in the same league, though. They weren't nearly as popular here, and certainly can't be compared to HP in terms of impact. However, to W&G fans in the U.S., it's certainly true that what attracted people was how different its humor is from most American animation.

I think thefish30 is right in that British humor is based more on wry observations of the world from the point of view of a straight man, whereas American humor tends to be an endless series of pratfalls and fart jokes. That's a

[fpb]

I am Italian. When I say that something swept the world, I do not mean America alone. I have read of the trials of trying to translate HP in Ukrainian, Vietnamese and Japanese. Not that I don't want the American point of view, just let us make sure we understand it is American.

W&G has been a hit across many countries, and is a regular on Italian TV. As for the US, it has to mean something that Nick Parks never presented a W&G short without walking away with an Academy Award.

[inverarity]

Well, my somewhat American-centric viewpoint is a reflection of your somewhat British-centric one, and for the same reason that Harry Potter has swept the world: American and British media does pretty much dominate the world. Where Hollywood and CNN don't reign supreme, it's the BBC and other British media filling the gaps more often than not

[fpb]

Please read more carefully. I was speaking of translating HP in Vietnamese, Ukrainian and Japanese. What is more, I know for a fact that it has been a massive hit in Italy before the movies. (And in spite of an unspeakable translation.) I can also tell you that some American and British ideas don't travel, especially in the field of humour. Anglo-American cultural dominance is not an acquired fact, and is less forceful now than it was forty years ago. In Italy, for instance, there is a strong Japanese influx, a huge (and, to many, incomprehensible) market for Brazilian telenovelas, and last but not least an increasing interest for local product, shown both in the rediscovery of formerly-despised local productions and in the vast success of recent items such as La Piovra, featuring heroic Carabinieri officers fighting the Mafia in Sicily. That Harry Potter should find its own place among all these was by no means a certainty, and in my view it did so quite simply because it is a superb piece of work.

[chthonya]

Off the top of my head, I can think of two things they have in common

[fpb]

You got me thinking on a few points