Also, we're coming up on a huge generational shift. The Millennials, who are analogous to the Greatests, are growing to adulthood. And when this crisis is over, they will likely do what the Greatest did when World War II was over ...
In this story, since the girls appear to be from a relatively well-off (or at least middle class) community, the usual pat answer about urban teen pregnancy - they just want the welfare cheques - cannot even awkwardly be seen to apply. Of course, that broad accusation, while it may be true in specific cases, has never rung completely accurate with me. I remember reading a girl saying something along the lines that "working at McDonald's I'm nobody, but with a baby I'm somebody. I'm somebody's Mother
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women and babieselskuligrJune 20 2008, 11:10:52 UTC
I'm a woman, and I'm not particularly fond of babies. I mean I have nothing against babies or children as such, I even think I'd like to have kids in a preferably slightly distant future, but I'm not your typical cliché of the girl who starts screaming "so cuuuuuuute!" every times she sees a baby. I don't think I'm an exception or an error of nature or a victim of some conspiracy to convince women they'd rather have a career than a family. On the contrary, I have the impression there is still a lot of pressure for women to be mothers or at least aspire to be mothers, as if not wanting children was somehow unnatural. Also, I want to have a career and perhaps I'm being naive, but I don't think it's impossible. After all my mother did it and she had four kids too, so that can't be completely impossible.
You ARE an exception, beginning with the fact that you are working towards an academic career. I have long since made up my mind that, as a historian, I am an exception, and that my interests are not the interests of mankind at large (although they are quick enough to ask questions about points of interest, they would never make the sacrifices and efforts involved in finding the answers for themselves). More power to you; I certainly would hate a society in which the likes of Ann Douglas or Mary Beard, to mention only two, were forced to stay at home and have babies. If I ever met Ann Douglas, to mention one, I would bow before her genius and immense learning. To make such a woman do anything except the thing she has done would be a colossal waste. More: it would be a crime against the human spirit. The work of an Ann Douglas is the work of one irreplaceable human mind, and had it not been done by her, we could not have an exact replacement, and the whole world would be the poorer. But bear in mind that the vast majority of "
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Re: women and babiescuria_regisJune 20 2008, 14:07:35 UTC
And bear in mind that this is the experience of work for the vast majority of women in the world.
I daresay it's the experience of work for most people in the world! One thing that has often frustrated me about my fellow students is that they don't seem to have a goal in life. They don't seem to have ambition. They don't have that 'dream job'. They want a job because they want something that can buy them a reasonable house and a nice car and all the necessities of life.
More people ought to have a vocation.
l that there is so great a pressure on women to have babies, is that because everyone in the world is telling you to have them - or because you are trying not to hear? That's an interesting point. Hmm. I haven't personally felt this pressure yet, but I suspect this is because my parents believe I'm far too young. When I'm thirty, I'll have to see which is actually the case. :) Then again, I've told people since I was about ten that I never wanted children. It might actually sink in by the time I'm thirty so maybe
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Heck no. Not everyone can be a doctor, a priest, a teacher, a scholar, or even a policeman or a soldier. Society lives and thrives on the work of people who are just trying to pay the bills. And ultimately, it is not even necessarily the case that a vocation will make you happier or better than anyone else.
While I can't even begin to contemplate what drove all these girls to get pregnant - from, by the sounds of things, a number of highly inappropriate men - but I'm pretty sure it wasn't sound reasoning. It sounds like a pretty naive notion of what motherhood will be like. "Oooh, we can have baby showers!" These girls are in for a shock. They have no idea what's in store for them
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't sound reasoning. It sounds like a pretty naive notion of what motherhood will be like. "Oooh, we can have baby showers!" These girls are in for a shock. They have no idea what's in store for them.
Patronizing, much?
As for the rest, please read my response to elskuligr, above.
Nope. Realistic. Childbirth is awful, and raising children is hard, hard, hard. A sixteen-year-old is not well-equipped, socially or mentally or emotionally. I'm not saying that a sixteen year old girl can't raise a child, but it really isn't a great situation. Even older women usually don't have much of a clue about what it's really like - they have an idealised view of childbirth and motherhood. I'm not exempt. I've seen many of the horrors that childbirth has to offer, and seen many of the difficulties experienced by friends who have children. Yet still I have this little belief that when it's my turn, everything will be okay, and I'll have perfect, healthy babies who'll sleep at night and not get sick, and not hate me when they're teenagers. But I'm old enough not to base any life-changing decisions on such fantasies.
Well, considering that my mother did it, and that the child was me (and that the childbirth was, by her account, the worst imaginable), I still tell you that you are being patronizing. And sixteen is the time for life-changing decisions. When did you make the decision to be a doctor?
Comments 135
... baby boom!
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What was his quote?
Something about life finding a way....
(hopefully, this will have less blood)
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I mean I have nothing against babies or children as such, I even think I'd like to have kids in a preferably slightly distant future, but I'm not your typical cliché of the girl who starts screaming "so cuuuuuuute!" every times she sees a baby.
I don't think I'm an exception or an error of nature or a victim of some conspiracy to convince women they'd rather have a career than a family.
On the contrary, I have the impression there is still a lot of pressure for women to be mothers or at least aspire to be mothers, as if not wanting children was somehow unnatural.
Also, I want to have a career and perhaps I'm being naive, but I don't think it's impossible. After all my mother did it and she had four kids too, so that can't be completely impossible.
Reply
Reply
I daresay it's the experience of work for most people in the world! One thing that has often frustrated me about my fellow students is that they don't seem to have a goal in life. They don't seem to have ambition. They don't have that 'dream job'. They want a job because they want something that can buy them a reasonable house and a nice car and all the necessities of life.
More people ought to have a vocation.
l that there is so great a pressure on women to have babies, is that because everyone in the world is telling you to have them - or because you are trying not to hear? That's an interesting point. Hmm. I haven't personally felt this pressure yet, but I suspect this is because my parents believe I'm far too young. When I'm thirty, I'll have to see which is actually the case. :) Then again, I've told people since I was about ten that I never wanted children. It might actually sink in by the time I'm thirty so maybe ( ... )
Reply
Heck no. Not everyone can be a doctor, a priest, a teacher, a scholar, or even a policeman or a soldier. Society lives and thrives on the work of people who are just trying to pay the bills. And ultimately, it is not even necessarily the case that a vocation will make you happier or better than anyone else.
Reply
Reply
Patronizing, much?
As for the rest, please read my response to elskuligr, above.
Reply
Nope. Realistic. Childbirth is awful, and raising children is hard, hard, hard. A sixteen-year-old is not well-equipped, socially or mentally or emotionally. I'm not saying that a sixteen year old girl can't raise a child, but it really isn't a great situation. Even older women usually don't have much of a clue about what it's really like - they have an idealised view of childbirth and motherhood. I'm not exempt. I've seen many of the horrors that childbirth has to offer, and seen many of the difficulties experienced by friends who have children. Yet still I have this little belief that when it's my turn, everything will be okay, and I'll have perfect, healthy babies who'll sleep at night and not get sick, and not hate me when they're teenagers. But I'm old enough not to base any life-changing decisions on such fantasies.
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