Comments | fox_c: On not being welcome

fox_c

On not being welcome

Feb 23, 2009 12:38

Over the past two weeks, I've gotten into no fewer than three different heated conversations with acquaintences on immigrants in British society. In each, they started on an anti-immigrant tirade when I politely reminded them that I am in fact an immigrant too. One was embarassed and back tracked, one claimed that what they really meant by " ( Read more... )

uk, grumblings, politics, news, via ljapp, immigration, job

Comments 46

alteredhistory February 23 2009, 14:55:17 UTC

You may find that you are most effective at combating the insular attitudes in countries where you "look like you belong." You don't look British, but close enough that I bet people can forget (as you mentioned). But consider sticking it out, if only because your appearance of belonging is one of the most effective challenges.

By the way... don't "go home." I guarantee that the majorities in Texas and Oklahoma doesn't want your kind here. :-)

kuoirad February 23 2009, 16:56:11 UTC

Aw, and I was gonna tell her they could always come back to the States... ;)

alteredhistory February 23 2009, 21:40:53 UTC

"come back to the States"

"come back to some of the States"

There. Fixed that for you.

fox_c February 28 2009, 11:54:22 UTC

Well and there lies the issue - if we are going to move back to the states, we would want to live where the majority of you all live- which right now is Texas for all love. Why, why must you all have settled in Texas?

Thread 5

mercutio_bgq February 23 2009, 15:23:53 UTC

I certainly wouldn't attach such ideas to the country - this attitude appears to prevail all over the map. It's a quality of a large percentage of humans, not particular nationalities. In the U.S., the issue of immigration has gotten so ugly in the last 5 years that politicians has actually STOPPED addressing it. It's TOO divisive, and doesn't split down party lines as cleanly as politicians would like. The previous election cycle just didn't address it at all.

fox_c February 28 2009, 11:55:30 UTC

Yeah, one of the best things about being an immigrant is that it drives my family nuts. You know, one of their kind has become one of THEM!

electrichobbit February 23 2009, 15:43:42 UTC

You know, I hear a lot of this "immigrants come to america and take our jobs," but I don't know anyone who's been applying to work in vegetable-harvesting, dish-washing, chicken-butchering, or any of the other shit jobs that immigrants regularly perform.

No one's ever been able to convince me that 99% of anti-immigration sentiment is anything but thinly-veiled racism. In Britain, where a large portion of those immigrants come from Europe or former colonies, it's a little bit more complicated - it becomes Nationalism for Europe and Racism for the colonies. But neither one of those are pretty things.

outotoro February 23 2009, 16:47:27 UTC

I don't know how much of the British issues are anti-European. . . I think there is a lot of racial overtones - and religious overtones. Muslim migration is a big, inflammatory topic at the moment.

electrichobbit February 23 2009, 17:00:13 UTC

That's definitely true - but a lot of it is also directed against the Poles, who fill a lot of the lower level service positions. The last time I stayed in England, the entire hotel staff were Polish - that definitely strikes me as nationalist sentiment vs. religious...it's because they're polish, not
Catholic.

fox_c February 28 2009, 11:58:25 UTC

The sad thing is, it's not just the Poles anymore. It's gotten through the heads of the British that they can't descrimate against other members of the EU (though they really resent not being able to) and so take it out on all those other immigrants running around. Which leaves me to have to keep reminding people that such a classification includes all us nice (because now that Obama is president Brits love Americans now) Yanks fall into that category too.

What doesn't help are all the screwball problems that OUR immigration system causes when they want to visit, let alone live. At that point I kind of have to concede. . .

Thread 5

kaveypie February 23 2009, 16:36:05 UTC

It probably doesn't come as a huge surprise to you to learn that those opinions you encountered aren't representative of my feelings on the issue either ( ... )

tashar February 24 2009, 07:23:02 UTC

...feel 100% British but are also proud of our Indian heritage, I see that as an added layer of richness, depth, history, cuisine, culture and more but I am absolutely a Brit first.

kaveypie, that's exactly the way I feel about being an American. I'll hyphenate only to educate, and to share with those who really, truly want to know. Desi is still exotic in many parts of the U.S., unfortunately - I suspect a lot less so in the U.K.?

kaveypie February 24 2009, 15:20:27 UTC

Yes, there are a LOT of people from India, Pakistan, rest of Indian subcontintent here in the UK!

:)

fox_c February 28 2009, 12:03:29 UTC

I'd also not have any problem with us implementing an immigration scheme such as those in Australia or Canada where immigrants with qualifications or skills currently in short supply here were given priority over completely unskilled applicants.

They actually already do this. Most of the non-skilled agriculture type visas are all snapped up by agencies who then charge even more exhorbanant fees for everything from entry permits to "room and board", that they usually end up with about 10 quid per week in their pockets. It's a travesty, because let me tell you those people work ten times harder than I do at my desk (even if it is in the basement).

I must admit though that the NHS is a huge draw, especially after being in the US. I feel so much more confidant and comfortable that should anything go wrong *touch wood* we would actually be able to get the care we need, not just the care we can pay for - and that this holds true even where only one of us was working.

It is really, really complicated.

outotoro February 23 2009, 16:51:23 UTC

As an American, I have bought full bore the melting pot idea - I'm all for opening up immigration for workers and families (if you come here to work, work away) - and guess what, all those workers will also be consumers too. . . yea expanding domestic markets!

But part and parcel with this image of America is that we are a blend - you were British or German or Irish or Africa or Chinese or Mexican - but NOW you are an American -- and your kids and grandkids will be thoroughly American.

I don't know if the Brits have a concept in enculturation - where those who were outside are brought into the culture - it's hard enough in America, but in England. . . I don't know.

tashar February 24 2009, 07:08:54 UTC

But part and parcel with this image of America is that we are a blend - you were British or German or Irish or Africa or Chinese or Mexican - but NOW you are an American -- and your kids and grandkids will be thoroughly American.

This is a definition of "American" that has not stayed in touch with the patterns of emigration. With modern transportation, communication, and media, the choice for an immigrant (to the US, or to any country) has become not whether to leave the old country behind for the new, but rather how much of each country to bring to the other. Bangla was brought over, and my Barbie was taken back - this is before Barbies could be found in retail markets in India. ;-) Sorta dates me!

It's also what causes the greatest friction between immigrants and natives - they've come to our country, they aren't eating/dressing/praying/living like us. What, are we not good enough for them, that they can't accept and adjust their ways, and make them all of ours ( ... )