I need a hobby.

[forsquilis]

You know what will totally destroy your productivity? Finding out that SpikeTV is running a marathon of the original Star Wars trilogy. Yep - that pretty much sucked away the last 7 hours of my life.

But because fandom totally warps one's mind, while watching the end of Return of the Jedi, I couldn't help thinking about Vader's storyline. He's

Comments

[kalikahuntress]

This is exactly why I don't want that to happen to Sylar, that would be lame. I don't really care about him being redeemed or what not, I just want the writers to realize what a useful character he can be, and that there are so many ways that they can show how the 'Heroes' can work with him.
Also, as much as I think Sylar cares about Mohinder in some way, it rubs me the wrong way when I read about fic where he allows himself to be killed for Mohinder, I could never buy that.

[kalikahuntress]

As for your questions, I think we have it drilled into us from we have seen in North American television that the bad guy always die, but because we like Sylar we want him to be redeemed a little bit before he does. Also, I don't get why people want Mohinder to kill Sylar, I honestly believe if it came down to it and Mohinder seriously tried to kill Sylar again, Sylar would retaliate, despite whatever connection they have. If he dies, I really want Sylar to die because it's time for his storyline to end, not because his fate should be tied to Mohinder or some crap like that or because Mohinder needs closure.

[forsquilis]

Oh, I don't want him to sacrifice himself for another character, either. But I do really like the idea of him redeeming himself, right at the end. Though in my mind, it takes the form of him completely admitting his crimes to himself and repenting, even if no one else believes him.

I'm still nervous about the writers. I'd like to THINK they recognize that he's a complex character rather than a one-dimensional baddie, but then again, I'd like to think they wouldn't have undone Hiro's characterization and written Peter as a complete idiot. :0(

[kalikahuntress]

I've always wondered what it would take for Sylar to get to that point. I think someone who would be willing to be a friend or confidant to him, maybe someone who went down the road he's going on could help push him in that direction. I don't believe the person to do this could be Mohinder either, there is too much baggage between them and Mohinder doesn't seem like the type of person who seems like he believes in redemption. I really think if they introduced someone into Sylar's life like this who isn't a lame love interest, it could work and he could start to slowly admit to his crimes.

[etoiledunord]

One of the reasons the first Star Wars trilogy was so successful (and one of the reasons the prequels weren't as well received) is because the Eps 4-6 are very allegorical. The stories and themes that drive them are ingrained into our culture. I wouldn't call it unoriginal to relate that to Heroes, since there are many ways of having a redemption story actually play out. So, yeah, in answer to your question, I'd say we are in fact "subliminally influenced by other stories," but not in a way that makes us unoriginal.

(Though, personally, I'd like to see the show explore the idea that redemption doesn't require remorse.)

[forsquilis]

Though, personally, I'd like to see the show explore the idea that redemption doesn't require remorse

That's an interesting point, actually. I know I've had people misunderstand me when I say I'd like to see Sylar redeemed before the show ends, because they always assume I mean I want to see him turned into a "good" guy, but I think of redemption for him as being something closer to Catholic confession. Even if other characters don't believe him, I'd like to see him admit that even if he was twisted by Chandra's dangling of "specialness", and even if people at the Company knew what he was doing but let it go on, he still has to bear responsibility for what he's done.

But I don't know if he could ever realistically do that: he's got so many layers of justification, and his need to be special, and his belief that he's above the rest of humanity. And that's an interesting question: would he have to admit guilt and repent everything, in order to redeem himself? That's one of the things I've liked about some of levitatethis's recent writings.

[etoiledunord]

I think we're talking about kind of opposite things. If I'm correct, what you're saying is that you'd like to see Sylar realize that he's done things that are wrong, regardless as to what the other characters think of him. I, personally, would rather see Sylar take the attitude that he's done what he's done, and if anybody has a problem with that, it's their own problem. This would probably require that Sylar not be a constant or immediate threat, I suppose... What I really want, I guess, is for the other characters to change the way they feel about him if he's not a major threat

[forsquilis]

Argh - I'm not communicating very well tonight. What I was trying to say was that we were talking about different things, but I'm still intrigued at the idea of you were talking about.

I was answering comments while distracted by television, and that's never a good idea... :0)

[violet_anchovy]

God, it's been such a ridiculously long time since I've seen the original trilogy--since college, I think. And I still have never seen Episode 3, so I don't even know why Darth Vader turned evil in the first place. ::turns in geek card::

Or is the idea of the villain who gives into goodness and redeems himself common enough that it's only to be expected we'd apply it to Sylar?

That last one, I think. I'm exceptionally slow-witted at the moment, but it seems like baddies generally turn good because of a) LUV, and/or b) an even greater evil that's too evil for them.

[forsquilis]

I actually haven't seen the trilogy in at least four years. It was nice to see it again. And I have to admit, I haven't seen Episodes 2 & 3. After enduring Jar Jar Binks in Episode 1, I wanted to put my foot through my friends' TV. Um...I think he turned evil because Luke & Leia's mother's life was threatened and he thought turning to the Dark Side would somehow give him the ability to save her? But I am not 100% sure on that.

I think you're generally correct about the reasons for baddies turning good. I can deal with (b) better than with (a), but I'm still not crazy about it. I like the thought of Sylar coming up against someone even worse than him because it might be a prompt to force him to work with others, if only because he can't stand the thought of someone dethroning him. But if he ever does regret what he's done, I'd rather see it be more of an internally-caused change than an externally-pressured one.

[jimmiefearsylar]

Disclaimer #1: I just woke up. So, coherency? Not quite my strong suit at the moment.
Disclaimer #2: My Star Wars knowledge is rather slim. I mean slim like, I did not watch the first three until right before The Phantom Menace came out. And I did not watch them then because "Oh man! Star Wars!" but because I worked in a toy store, and I figured I better learn who was who before I dealt with a barrage of Star Wars geeks fans coming in the store asking me about stuff outside of the most basic elements. Chewbacca? Yes. Uncle Owen? Huh? I don't even remember how Vader died, just that he was a badass and thus, by default, my second favorite Star Wars character. ::runs to Wikipedia:: Oh holy crap, that was... lame. ::Shakes head:: I liked it better when I did not remember.
Then again, I can see it making more sense in Vader's case, because we knew all along that Luke was his son and later found out that that tied in to why it was he went to the Dark Side in the first place. This does not make it any less lame, but at least it was something

[forsquilis]

Disclaimer #1: I just woke up. So, coherency? Not quite my strong suit at the moment.

Heh. Well, I spent most of the day yesterday drugged out on cold meds, and so I don't think I was overly coherent in my post, as I seem to have come across as saying that I advocate Sylar having a "die to save someone else's life" storyline. I really just meant the spirit of what happened to Vader, where he admits he's done wrong and renounces it, not to win brownie points or to try to save his own miserable skin, but because he realizes it's the right thing to do

[aurilly]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "Han shot first": would you please explain? I am kind of intrigued and embarassed not to get the reference, since I am kind of a big geek about the original series

[kalikahuntress]

Do you mind if I ask why you want Mohinder to be the one to kill Sylar? I've just seen this comment so many times and I am curious why. I'm personally hoping that Mohinder drops the 'you killed my father' bit because it's getting old. He should never forget it but I think he has other priorities in his life other than killing Sylar right now. And Mohinder killing anyone unless he is defending himself creeps me out. I've read several stories where Mohinder gets Sylar in a vulnerable state and then kills him, and it leaves a bad tastes in my mouth where Mohinder is concerned. I'm not sure I want to see him go there because it would really change him for the worse.
If he kills Sylar in self defense sure, but to plan his death and go through with it, unless the writers can't see a way to make their dynamic last on the show, does't make sense to me.

[aurilly]

Do you mean me? Ok. I see what you're saying, and in a lot of ways I agree. My personal vision is that Sylar realizes he is dying or has to die... or something... and asks Mohinder to please just shoot him in the head rather than let him die slowly, painfully, and horribly. And there's a beautiful moment where Mohinder gets a little sad and kind of doesn't want to, but does it anyway. And Sylar understands that Mohinder is really upset by it, but knows it's the kind thing to do. It's their way of making peace at the end

[kalikahuntress]

Oh god, I totally agree about the Peter and Bennet thing. If either of those things happen I will gag. Thanks for responding to my question, I really see where you are coming from now and I think that would make a good ending for Sylar, I have a couple endings I have envisioned and this would be a really good one.