What boys could learn from girls...

[lizzypaul]

My brother is a decent kid, and I love him, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s homophobic.

To his credit, he doesn’t want to be a homophobe...he’s a good, progressive boy raised by a progressive mom, living in a progressive area (San Francisco), and he has a lesbian sister (me) that he loves. He’d never beat up or tease a gay kid--he’s

Comments

[dimension_view]

Oh boy.

*waits for the mods*

[lizzypaul]

I'm sorry, was there some part of my post that you found offensive or objectionable? This is a totally honest question, btw. I'm not really seeing what the problem is.

[lizzypaul]

Hmm. Okay. I understand what you're saying, and I will certainly leave it up to the mods if they feel it needs to be deleted, but here are my thoughts...

1) It was not at all my intention to imply in any way that gay men were a threat to straight men. In fact, I opened the post with a discussion about how I was disturbed by my brother's homophobia. The point of the post was not to attack the idea that gay men pose a threat to straight men: honestly, in a community like feminist, I felt that was unnecessary. I don't think anyone here needs to be told that my brother's fears are irrational...it's obvious. Also, as I stated upfront, I'm gay as well. Again, I figured it went without saying that my brother was wrong (in fact, I thought I did say that), and I didn't want to add to an already long post. Obviously, I was wrong

[roseofjuly]

You acknowledged in your post that you didn't say it, but what you didn't say in your post was that you were surprised that you even thought it. Not saying something, but still thinking it, doesn't mean it's not equally as misogynist. Moreover, you turned the phrase around into what you perhaps thought was a witty statement, but really just reinforces stereotypes of women (and gay men, for that matter) and strengthens the use of "pussy" (an epithet that reduces women to a sexual organ) as an appropriate word to describe women and people who act, think, or feel like women.

So really, the thought should stop at "pussy=woman" because we shouldn't okaying that word to use.

It's not that you didn't explain yourself well enough. It's simply that what you said was still offensive, even when understood properly.

[mimicucumber]

I'm working through your other arguments alongside the OP, but the response I disagree with you on is the issue of 'pussy'. The OP explained zir attitude to and understanding of the term and quite obviously has attempted a reclamation via this text. I don't have an objection to that at all.

[mstakenidentity]

Hmm.

I actually found this a really interesting read, and the problems pointed out above didn't leap out at me. This is possibly because I'm a straight female with a very different experience and perspective. I'm finding the fact that others obviously do find this post problematic interesting too. My education continues (and I hope your brother's does too!)

[lizzypaul]

I'm glad you found it interesting! It was kind of a "huh!" moment for me and the RL folks I shared it with, and I thought others online might like it as well. (Honestly, I had no idea that I was being controversial, and it certainly wasn't my intention to offend anyone! My education conintues, too!)

The nice thing about my brother is that he's willing to learn. He might frustrate me with his attitudes at times (not just towards gay people...he's quite wrapped up in straight white male privilage, with many of the mistakes that brings), but he's always willing to listen and consider other perspectives when we point out, "Uh, your privilage is showing." He's a long way from perfect, but he's also 19, and learning. And really, who is perfect?

[happiestsadist]

It is awesome that your brother is at least willing to learn.
I loved this post, and love your icon too.

[qkellie]

This mirrors my experience of reading this. I appreciate the OP's clarifications to the objections, and I honestly think this is all a really interesting and hopefully enlightening realization that she can share with her brother

[ex_1trackmi]

Perhaps I didn't take enough women's studies or queer theory courses in my undergrad, but I don't find your post offensive. This isn't your Master's thesis, it was a rant on your part and you happened to throw in some researched stats for credibility.

You had 2 topics you were ranting on 1 being your concern that your brother avoids interactions/friendships with gay men even though he is overall supportive of the GLBTQ community. The 2nd being your insult at his insinuation that you don't know what it's like to fear the possibility of being objectified or possibly victimized. If anything it shows heterosexual white male privilege, because it doesn't appear that he knows what that feels like from real experience, but a fear of an imagined experience. You, however, know what it actually feels like to be objectified, harassed and assaulted (something many women can relate to understanding that feeling). It's obvious his comment really hit home to you and bothered you, you needed to get that out of your system.

[jocelynxheart]

"Perhaps I didn't take enough women's studies or queer theory courses in my undergrad, but I don't find your post offensive."

I just have to ask, are you suggesting that you personally don't have access to certain theories that others seem to be pointing to when they point out what they find offensive in the post, or are you suggesting that women's and gender studies students are just looking for something to be offended by?

[drooling_ferret]

The less hostile assumption might be that it's an overstated way of saying "I really don't see what all the fuss is about".

[jocelynxheart]

I didn't mean to be hostile, I was genuinely curious (my own position is somewhat aligned with the first option). I also think that to call this "an overstated" statement is to ignore that it potentially dismisses any offensive that someone might have to this post by writing the offended party off in the same way that feminists who find rape jokes unfunny are written off as "humorless feminists". And I don't think that's cool.

[ciaraxyerra]

i will copy & re-post something from freelark's comment that i think sums up a big part of the problem with this post: Gay men remained the other in the conversation, because you made it about your oppression instead of attacking the idea that gay men pose a genuine threat to straight men.you made it about your oppression, being a cissexual woman living in a rape culture (which is of course a very serious issue) instead of unpacking the real issue at stake in your brother's homophobia: his irrational apprehension that gay men pose a real threat to him. this is tied up not just in a somewhat exaggerated response to the real issue of male-on-male rape, but in the classic belief that a lot of homophobic straight men seem to have about gay men being voracious sexual monsters, ready to leap on anything with a penis. your brother's comment about how you "can't understand" was definitely insensitive & spoke volumes about male privilege, so if you were trying to make a point about the depth of breadth of male privilege...okay. i can see it, i

[lizzypaul]

Gay men remained the other in the conversation, because you made it about your oppression instead of attacking the idea that gay men pose a genuine threat to straight men.

I understand what you both are saying, and I thought about it, but I have to say that I disagree.

Attacking the idea that gay men are a threat to straight men was not the point of my post. My brother's homophobia--which I obviously disagreed with--was the jumping off point for thoughts that I had regarding women living in a rape culture. That was the point. Not false conceptions about gay men, not homophobia (though that was mentioned), not male sexual assault. All of them are connected to my topic, but not what I wanted to discuss. It's not that I don't think those topics are important; they are! I've written quite a bit about them in the past. Of course I think homophobia is terrible--I'm a lesbian! I deal with the consequences of a homophobic society as part of my daily life. Of course I think sexual assault is an important issue, regardless of the

[dorktastic]

I don't think ciaraxyrra meant that it was an academic essay, but it is an essay.

[ciaraxyerra]

yeah, like dorktastic said, it's an essay. it's a personal essay. have you never read any of the eighty gazillion ahtologies out there in the world that address various aspects of feminism through the medium of the personal essay? that is what your post smacks of, & it is once again intellectual dishonesty for you to keep saying, "if i miscommunicated about this topic, or communicated the wrong angle on this other topic, sorry! my writing didn't convey things properly! it was the writing! the writing was bad!" um...you wrote the writing. it's not like a wayward dog that pissed on someone's shoe. you have control over your writing