and Badd being the final member of the Yatagarasu really took me abackReally? I saw that coming almost as soon as I learned of his involvement with Faraday. I also liked Shih-na/Calisto, I thought the latter was very funny and I enjoyed someone who didn't take Edgeworth's schtick so seriously
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better late than never, right?fanbeatsmanMarch 31 2010, 11:41:54 UTC
Haha, I have to be honest, it's really easy to suck me in as far as twists are concerned - I am appalling at mystery solving; I hate guessing games and just don't have a problem-solving kind of brain, so I usually just go along for the ride with twisty stories. Maybe that's why the obvious-ness of a couple of the cases bothered me so much - because I figured if I saw what they did there, it must have been really obvious :D
I enjoyed someone who didn't take Edgeworth's schtick so seriously.I am with you there, actually - I liked seeing someone laugh at Edgeworth, too, especially seeing as he was so very mockable in this game (in an endearing kind of way :D). It's funny, though, that I enjoyed Calisto taking Edgeworth down a peg or two, but whenever people ridiculed Franziska (who is, let's face it, just as ridiculous as Edgeworth in a lot of ways, if not more so) I really bristled at it. I think, like I said, that it's because the mocking of Franziska seemed to have a bit of a gendered edge to it a lot of the time, but I'm not sure
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I will probably post some longer comment at some point, but on Edgeworth and main character dynamics:
If you haven't, go grab a stretch of a case (probably one of the ones in T&T works best) and play it hitting all the right answers. Characterization of Phoenix changes so. much. For linear games, there's a huge swing in interpretation just based on how you play.
I am really interested in seeing reactions -- I was comparing the new canon to RPers, more than fic-writers, since I do so much RP stuff these days -- though she's AFAIK not done and thus not reading reviews/posting meta, I was surprised that llamaramuk was liking the new canon, for example; she's one of the most polished-characterized Edgeworth writers out there. But I didn't think this clashed with anything we've seen before for one big reason -- the whole thing about MVK and running perfect trials, and the fact that Edgeworth was trained like that. He's scrambling on his feet in AA:I, and we're not intended, I don't think, to assume this is usual for him
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I need to fail less at getting back to commentsfanbeatsmanMarch 31 2010, 12:02:36 UTC
You know, I've actually just been replaying T&T recently, and you're absolutely right (although, I have to say, it is distressing just how many times I have found myself making exactly the same mistakes as I did the first time round; apparently, I just never learn). Phoenix can seem really quite impressive in court if you play the game fluently. I think I've very rarely managed to hit stretches like that, though, partly because as I said to alienchrist, I SUCK at detective work, and partly because I always want to drag as much dialogue out of the characters as possible, so I press and examine EVERYTHING.
But I didn't think this clashed with anything we've seen before for one big reason -- the whole thing about MVK and running perfect trials, and the fact that Edgeworth was trained like that. He's scrambling on his feet in AA:I, and we're not intended, I don't think, to assume this is usual for him.I really like this reading. I hadn't given much thought to the fact that Edgeworth is not in his natural habitat in this game, and might very
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I still haven't finished the localized version of the game, but having played the game a year ago, I just totally need to agree on this fact: The only weak spot in Edgeworth's characterisation I actually thought came as a function of making him the main character. -- of course, there was something really interesting in playing someone who at times, seemed more smarter than myself. 8D Also, Kay was actually so very adorable and HRRNGH Lang, I have such a hard-on for.
I have nothing logical to add, simply because well-- you've mentioned everything I liked and 'meh'd' at. That and I just wanted to drop by to say hi, Clare, it's been a while. ♥
Hello, you :) It's good to hear from you again! How are things with you? I really hope things are looking up with your dad ♥
One of the few things that I was wary about before playing this game was playing as someone who's supposed to be extremely clever, as I tend to be hypercritical of genius characters - I think it's incredibly hard to write a genuinely hyperintelligent character, and I hardly ever buy them. And yeah, I wasn't always convinced by Edgeworth. valentinite's reading above has shifted my thinking on that somewhat, though.
Kay is the only new character in the game that's actually become a fic muse, which was massively unexpected. I think it's because of how comparatively well-adjusted she is; it makes her such a great foil for so many other people.
I agree with so much of this :D Though as an interesting counterpoint to your comment about Shih-na/Calisto - I said exactly the same thing in my own meta and someone pointed out to me that one of the features of Shih-na/Calisto is that she is a mole whose identity changes according to the smuggling ring's requirements. So one could argue that she seems really cardboard and lacking depth because of her league of assumed identities; after all, she says herself that she doesn't really have a proper name. That made me think a bit more about that, and the reason we don't twig she's Calisto until towards the end (that caught me by surprise too) is because she shows so little emotion or personality
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I need to stop doing this whole post-and-run thingfanbeatsmanMarch 31 2010, 12:26:59 UTC
That's a great point about Shih-na/Calisto. It's actually really awakened a bit of interest in her for me - now I quite fancy the idea of reading the story of her experiences as a mole! It could make a pretty epic fic, I think - actually, it would make a great film, wouldn't it? I do always like the idea of AA films/anime, although I know they'd be a huge disappointment if they ever actually happened.
And regarding your point about the dynamics of conversations - I think you could look at it as being in character for Edgeworth, even if the gameplay isn't quite so engaging. He talks to people to get information, not to find out their deepest secrets and all the rest. Good point! I definitely hear you there, yes. I suppose that's the flipside to the idea of a game mechanic based around logic and argument - a compromise you have to make to get an authentic mechanic for Edgeworth. I suppose the problem I have is that I prefer Edgeworth as a POV character, but Phoenix as a basis for gameplay :D
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Hello! It's good to hear from you again :) I've missed having you around my flist (not that I've been all that great at updating myself recently ¬_¬).
I think one of the things that helped Kay grow on me was the way that the game, whether deliberately or not, progressively dismantles the things that would normally set off mega Mary Sue alarm bells - the idea of her being in a relationship with Edgeworth is progressively (and comprehensively!) killed off, the seeming randomness of her being there gets explained, it becomes increasingly reasonable that Edgeworth and Franziska should not only tolerate her but be kind to her, &c. And I loved her interactions with Franziska too. Perhaps a little too much ¬_
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I enjoyed someone who didn't take Edgeworth's schtick so seriously.I am with you there, actually - I liked seeing someone laugh at Edgeworth, too, especially seeing as he was so very mockable in this game (in an endearing kind of way :D). It's funny, though, that I enjoyed Calisto taking Edgeworth down a peg or two, but whenever people ridiculed Franziska (who is, let's face it, just as ridiculous as Edgeworth in a lot of ways, if not more so) I really bristled at it. I think, like I said, that it's because the mocking of Franziska seemed to have a bit of a gendered edge to it a lot of the time, but I'm not sure ( ... )
Reply
If you haven't, go grab a stretch of a case (probably one of the ones in T&T works best) and play it hitting all the right answers. Characterization of Phoenix changes so. much. For linear games, there's a huge swing in interpretation just based on how you play.
I am really interested in seeing reactions -- I was comparing the new canon to RPers, more than fic-writers, since I do so much RP stuff these days -- though she's AFAIK not done and thus not reading reviews/posting meta, I was surprised that llamaramuk was liking the new canon, for example; she's one of the most polished-characterized Edgeworth writers out there. But I didn't think this clashed with anything we've seen before for one big reason -- the whole thing about MVK and running perfect trials, and the fact that Edgeworth was trained like that. He's scrambling on his feet in AA:I, and we're not intended, I don't think, to assume this is usual for him ( ... )
Reply
But I didn't think this clashed with anything we've seen before for one big reason -- the whole thing about MVK and running perfect trials, and the fact that Edgeworth was trained like that. He's scrambling on his feet in AA:I, and we're not intended, I don't think, to assume this is usual for him.I really like this reading. I hadn't given much thought to the fact that Edgeworth is not in his natural habitat in this game, and might very ( ... )
Reply
I have nothing logical to add, simply because well-- you've mentioned everything I liked and 'meh'd' at. That and I just wanted to drop by to say hi, Clare, it's been a while. ♥
Reply
One of the few things that I was wary about before playing this game was playing as someone who's supposed to be extremely clever, as I tend to be hypercritical of genius characters - I think it's incredibly hard to write a genuinely hyperintelligent character, and I hardly ever buy them. And yeah, I wasn't always convinced by Edgeworth. valentinite's reading above has shifted my thinking on that somewhat, though.
Kay is the only new character in the game that's actually become a fic muse, which was massively unexpected. I think it's because of how comparatively well-adjusted she is; it makes her such a great foil for so many other people.
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And regarding your point about the dynamics of conversations - I think you could look at it as being in character for Edgeworth, even if the gameplay isn't quite so engaging. He talks to people to get information, not to find out their deepest secrets and all the rest. Good point! I definitely hear you there, yes. I suppose that's the flipside to the idea of a game mechanic based around logic and argument - a compromise you have to make to get an authentic mechanic for Edgeworth. I suppose the problem I have is that I prefer Edgeworth as a POV character, but Phoenix as a basis for gameplay :D ( ... )
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I think one of the things that helped Kay grow on me was the way that the game, whether deliberately or not, progressively dismantles the things that would normally set off mega Mary Sue alarm bells - the idea of her being in a relationship with Edgeworth is progressively (and comprehensively!) killed off, the seeming randomness of her being there gets explained, it becomes increasingly reasonable that Edgeworth and Franziska should not only tolerate her but be kind to her, &c. And I loved her interactions with Franziska too. Perhaps a little too much ¬_ ( ... )
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