[Character Information] Relationship Essay: Asch
UPDATE REQUIRED: Guy, Luke, Natalia
Since Asch's relationships with Luke, Guy, and Natalia are so insanely complex, a little section of the relationships list is far too small to really explain it completely. Thus, it's going here. This is really more of a relationship manifesto/character analysis, but, ehhh.
....Also this is long, holy hell.
LUKE
(3,300+ words)
An Introduction
There's no easy way to describe the relationship between Asch and Luke. It's different for each of them, and while Luke progresses a lot over the course of the game, Asch... doesn't. Not much, anyway. And I admit things have been a little rushed in Luceti, but that's more or less the nature of things with most roleplaying, so I'm trying to work with what I've got. Certain events have sort of conspired to make them closer, but they have a long way to go.
History
Luke's past: ...Not much of one. He's only been alive for seven years, and most of those have been spent under lock and key in Fabre Manor, raised mostly by Guy, taught to fight through Van's occasional visits to the mansion. The fon slots were opened at Choral Castle, linking him to Asch. Didn't find out he was a replica until after Akzeriuth was destroyed.
Asch's past: Ten years in Baticul, kidnapped, painfully replicated, lost his entire family, spent the rest of his life under the tutelage and care of the manipulator who had him replicated in the first place and then convinced him that the only reason he wasn't replaceable was due to his hyperresonance. He grew up resenting Luke and hating all replicas with a passion.
The fact that Asch blames Luke and not Van for his replication is a point of interest for me, since Van was there for it, and was in fact the instigator of the entire ordeal. Yet with brilliant and calculated manipulation, Van managed to control Asch so completely for seven years of his life, even a few years before that. For Asch, he truly was 'master', his source of purpose, of love and care and trust. Van needed him, and that in turn made Asch need him- exactly what Van wanted.
In so many ways Van is a genius; despite their repeated refusals to join him, he kept stringing Asch and Luke along for the entire goddamned game. Right up until the end, so much of their lives were devoted to Van - learning from him, seeking his approval, trusting him - that the idea of Van no longer wanting or needing them is crushing. Luke spends most of the game fretting about who he is and why Van accepts Asch and not him, and Asch runs around like a madman filling his time with duty and missions, in the process distracting himself from the fact that Van betrayed him so utterly and shattering his plan to stay by Van's side. Van played everyone, but they paid the highest price for it. And instead of finding some sort of mutual understanding between themselves, instead of coming together and using that joint betrayal as a weapon against him, they turned on each other. All because of Van.
So really, it's not just a relationship between Asch and Luke; in the middle of all their problems is Van, yet neither of them seem to be able to blame him. At the end of things, Asch still wanted to be his student and Luke thanked him.
They are so seriously messed up.
Game Canon
Throughout the game there's no shortage of evidence that Asch hates Luke; as the saying goes, "haters gonna hate", after all. And there's no denying that Asch is quite the hater. He hates Luke, he hates replicas, he hates Van, he even hates himself, it seems. He calls himself pathetic about three times if you play your cards right. What's easy to miss are the subtle developments he goes through over the course of game canon, and while he remains pretty dark and bitter until the end, he does open up to some of his insecurities, fighting all the while. And he comes to realize the importance of things he'd dismissed not too long before. I've compiled a list of little factoids about Asch and his thoughts on Luke, Van, and replicas in general:
Asch wanted to stay with Van. Even at the end, Asch admits to this. He wanted to be Van's tool- in a way, that was all that mattered. The rest of Auldrant be damned; despite all that had been done to him and all he'd lost, Asch was prepared to give it all away and follow Van's ideals until he died. ( 9:10-9:40 ) Linked to this little factoid is the next point-
Asch hates replicas more than he loves anything else. It's a sad fact, but a true one. Asch loves Auldrant; he loves Kimlasca. He loves his family. He loves Van more than any of these things. But the fact that Van wanted to replace everyone with replicas was the one factor that made Asch abandon him and begin working on his own to stop Van from succeeding. It's actually somewhat of a frightening concept. It's not really known how much of Van's plan Asch was aware of; he knew Van plotted to overturn the Score, he knew he wanted to use Asch's hyperresonance to do that. He probably knew something would be done about Lorelei. But everything else he knew was nothing compared to finding out about the replicas. With that level of hate for the very concept of replication, the fact that he'd abandoned his home and everything else he loved for Van's sake, his hatred of Luke must have been all the more intense throughout the majority of the game.
Asch tries to accept Luke. Not all the time, and never completely. But there are moments, little fragments and real attempts for him to help Luke, to support him and urge him to develop, even though his methods were wrong. Examples that come to mind:
Asch has very contradicting feelings about Luke. It's shown frequently throughout the game; he wants Luke to die, but he spares his life. He hates Luke, yet he helps him every step of the way. He argues with Luke constantly, but the one who always starts the conversations between them was Asch. How he feels contradicts how he acts, out of necessity. The worst of it, perhaps, is in Grand Chokmah prior to Eldrant, again: here at 7:15-7:55.
"How can you just accept calling yourself inferior?! Why can't you say you're superior?! Why do you insist on putting yourself down?!"
And then:
"Shut up! You're an inferior, defective replica! I refuse to accept you!"
In the span of less than one minute, Asch contradicts himself completely. He wants Luke to stay as his copy, as only his replica, because if he's anything less (or more) then Asch will have lost everything for nothing, in a sense. But at the same time, he can't stand that Luke has none of the pride he himself possesses, the pride that demands he be the superior one, the strongest. The one Van needs. As long as Luke has decided that he, the replica, is the weaker one, Asch can't accept him as an equal or even as an ally because he places so much value on personal pride. If Luke is his true copy, he should feel that same level of pride and superiority. Anything less is nothing but an impostor, as Asch says.
Close to the end of the game, Guy says this: "Asch hated replicas. That gave him purpose. He lost that the moment Luke stood on his own." That sums things up pretty well. Asch wants to acknowledge Luke's independence and power by working with him, but doing so would ruin his own personal beliefs, wound his sense of purpose, and make himself into a contradiction, really. And since Luke lacks his own sense of pride, Asch has an excuse to continue hating him despite wanting to rely on that strength.
Asch values his hyperresonance above all. It's stated - or more implied than anything, since Van never seems to say it directly - repeatedly in the game that the reason Van accepts Asch and rejects Luke is because of his power and control over hyperresonance. Without that hyperresonance, Asch has no greater value above his "defective" or rejected replica; if anything he's less valuable without it, since that's the reason Van even wants him. It sort of negates everything Asch worked towards for the past seven years, so he's very much not happy about the current situation in Luceti.
Asch has his moments of kindness. This can vary depending on what language you listen to- English!Asch tends to sound more angry, I've found, while in Japanese Asch is gruff, but slightly more soft-spoken. An example of this is here at 00:00-00:25; Asch offers to send the group back to Luke, and he doesn't sound mocking or cruel about it; just... matter-of-fact. He knows the group won't stay with him, nor does he want them to. He reassures Luke, insults him, and drags him down again, but he never had to say any reassurance like that in the first place. There's cruelty in his kindness, but he's kind nonetheless. It just very, very rarely applies to Luke.
Luke can connect to Asch in certain situations. It occurs three times during the game that I can think of- five if you count the unification of their hyperresonances during the lowering of the Outer Lands and the Tower of Rem. These examples are:
Luceti
I have to confess that due to my inexperience with playing him, when I started things out in Luceti I made Asch nicer than he ought to be. He smiled too easily, he opened up too quickly, he continued conversations he otherwise would have ended, for the sake of further interaction. His characterization was a work-in-progress and I learned from it, but unfortunately there's no going back and fixing things, either. There are a number of difficulties that exist in bringing Asch into a social situation like a roleplay; for one, he rejects damn near everyone unless he finds them useful, and for another, he prefers to work alone, and that means being alone even in a new world. Familiar faces don't mean the same to him as they do to most other people. There are other reasons, but those two are the major ones, and similar ones at that. A few things have conspired to keep Asch relatively close to Luke over the course of his time spent in Luceti, but this is their gradual development thus far:
To Sum It Up
Suffice to say they've come a long way in a year and a half of constantly living together. I don't know where things will go from here or how close they'll get, but Asch is more or less comfortable with how things stand right now. It's still unfamiliar ground, but he's not as hopeless as he used to be. Naturally they still argue, but that's a crucial part of their dynamic that really shouldn't change or vanish.
GUY
(3,200+ words)
An Introduction
Asch and Guy have a rather complicated history, and thus now they have a complicated relationship. The complexity of it is probably what drew me to it; Asch with Natalia (and Guy with Luke, in contrast, which is the more popular couple for him) was always the happy fluffy couple, since Asch hardly ever so much as raised his voice with her, and any comment he made that could seem even remotely mocking was said in such a playfully ironic tone that it was easy to see it was just good-natured teasing. For Asch, the idea is practically unreal. But Guy offers such a contrary attitude and personality, and their histories are ridiculously similar and give them a sort of mutual understanding if they were brought to that point.
I confess that I shipped the two of them for a long time, well before I joined Luceti with Asch, but it was never my intention that they hook up- actually, at the time it was impossible, as Guy was with Luke when Asch arrived. I brought Asch to Luceti because I wanted to join the Tales of the Abyss cast, and things progressed gradually yet pleasantly from there; it's interesting how things work out that way. I'm not particularly apologetic for the progression of things, either, since I'm really happy with how they've turned out, but as I've been questioned on my reasoning for the ship in the past, this monstrosity was born from my constant need to justify myself, I suppose.
So, working our way up...
History
Guy's past: Orphaned at a young age, raised by single authority figure (sort of; Pere's a whole new can of lovable grandpa worms), grew up resenting the perceived source of his misery- namely, Duke Fabre, and by association Luke, as well. Had a change of heart and allowed himself the chance to start to get over his issues, thus setting aside his revenge.
Asch's past: Born a nobleman, lost his family due to replication, raised by a single authority figure (Van, presumably since Asch's existence must not have become known until enough time had passed; Dist implied that he'd been locked away in Daath to prevent escape), grew up resenting the source of his misery- the replica who stole it all. In canon he has very subtle changes in his opinions, but in the end has yet to forgive Luke so much as grudgingly accept him.
As a child (when he was Luke) Asch was given at least three years with Guy, from the time he arrived and started working in the manor until Asch's kidnapping. While we're not given many hints about how these few years were, it's more or less implied that Guy didn't really give two shits about Asch, and was just biding his time in order to become more comfortable with the idea of killing a child. It's impossible to know if that would ever have happened, or if Guy would've ever killed 'Luke', since it's the replica Luke that changed his mind.
For Asch's part, however, it's... pretty easy to tell that Guy was important to him. The way he behaves around Guy, the way he speaks with him, the way he reacts to Guy's rejection- it's implied numerous times that for Asch's part, Guy was his childhood friend, just as much as Natalia if not moreso. Guy took care of him as a child, and if you consider his upbringing, it makes sense for him to view Guy quite differently than he views the others. I actually find it really interesting that hardly anyone notices how Asch behaves around Guy, considering the fact that how he treats Natalia is almost the same (albeit less subtly) and everyone and their mother auto-ships them (including me, really). But if his behaviour around Natalia can justify the ship, that same reasoning can justify pairing Asch and Guy up- provided there is either enough development, and/or Guy is at a timeline where he's willing to give Asch a chance, let alone be romantically inclined towards him.
Game Canon
For all their claims at letting go of the past, they certainly are good at basing how they live their lives on it. Both characters have at some (if not more than one) point in the game mentioned that they've had difficulty with throwing away the past. Unfortunately Guy totally tops Asch in the "I'm getting over it" category, and they spend the majority being at odds over how to treat Luke... still, here's a number of points on their interaction in-game and why they tolerate each other's dickery:
Guy was his primary caregiver. It was only a few years, and he probably had someone else looking after him before then, but even so, the important thing is that it was Guy's job. Asch was neglected as a child, intentionally by his father, and unintentionally by his mother, who was often too ill to look after him herself. The responsibility fell to those hired by Fabre: the tutors, for his schooling, Van, as his swordsmanship instructor, and Guy, for everything else. As an older male close to his age, Asch most likely looked up to Guy on a number of levels. When it came to playing, he preferred Guy over Natalia, and though it seems as if he was a serious, stand-offish type of kid, he's also shown as being kind-hearted and genuinely happy; it was the innocence and genuine lack of concern for his past that endeared Luke to Guy, something Asch was missing as a kid. Just one more thing the replica had that he didn't- Guy's affection.
Asch knew of Guy's plans. It's more or less stated in the game that because of their history, Asch assumed Guy would choose Luke over him because "Van told [him]". Even knowing that Guy was only pretending when they were children, and that for years the plan of murder was on his mind instead of the brotherly love Asch carried for him, Asch doesn't hold it against Guy. Instead he brushes it off and lets it go, feigning disinterest, despite the fact that it clearly makes him uncomfortable. Which brings me to point 3-
Asch doesn't object to how Guy treats him. Asch the Bloody is not a pushover. Not by a long shot. If people argue with him, he will argue back; if people insult him, tease him, or treat him badly, he will either respond in kind or leave rather than sit there and take it. But when Guy snaps at him, or contradicts him for the sake of being nasty, Asch doesn't protest in the slightest. In fact, he even prevents Natalia from scolding Guy for it. (( 5:20-5:48, 6:07-6:25. ) When Natalia tries to encourage Guy to support Asch, Guy is immediately reluctant - in words he agrees with her, but it's easy to tell by tone and expression that he's not being sincere. ( 7:45-8:12 ). Shortly after he leaves the group entirely to return to Luke, Asch once again dismisses the issue despite Natalia's concerns, and Jade observes that Asch likes Guy. ( 9:27-10:26 ).
Asch listens to Guy. Despite his bitching, despite his "brb doing everything myself" attitude, when Guy makes a demand of him, Asch listens. Since the number of times the party meets up with Asch are kind of limited, examples are a bit sparse as well, but there's two solid moments of this happening that I can recall:
Mushroom Road. Yeah, this is something of a cop-out, which is why I'm putting it near the end. For those unaware, during the Mushroom Road sidequest, entering and exiting the dungeon area several times lands you this little snippet of dialogue:
Guy: You again.
Asch: ...Gee, sorry. Good timing. Take me with you.
Luke: Gotcha, I'll stay here.
Guy: Luke, you don't have to stay behind for this guy's sake.
Luke: Guy! You were Asch's childhood friend. He loves you. You could be a little nicer.
Asch: ...N-no I don't! Cut the stupid chatter and let's go!
It's not much, and it offers no support whatsoever to Guy's side of the equation, but it proves two things: Asch's affection for Guy (not necessarily romantic, but enough that suggesting such a thing gets a rise out of him, even a stutter and probably a blush), and Luke's desire to see the two of them getting along.
This is more speculation than anything, but I like to imagine (as do a number of doujinshi artists, since there's a few sidestories for Mushroom Road) that their travels in Mushroom Road gave Asch and Guy a chance to interact more behind the scenes, and while I can't see any miraculous chats with love confessions or relational revelations, I think it would've been nice to see some Mushroom Road skits with Asch and the rest of the party.
Guy wanted to start over. At the end of the game, while speaking to Natalia, Guy said several very important things ( 1:55-3:35 ):
Guy understands Asch. Not perfectly, not by far. No one can do that, not even Asch himself. But probably better than most people, even Natalia and certainly Luke. There's a number of times during the game that he actually asks Luke outright why he doesn't know what Asch is thinking. He only explains a few times, but it's enough to show the kind of insight he has on Asch. This is why he's well-suited to deal with Asch's baggage and drama; he can keep a clear head and realize what Asch's problem is, sometimes before he himself knows.
Luceti
For this one, I had to start digging deep into waaay back when Asch first arrived and Eggy's original Guy, from the Tower of Rem timeline, was still around. It started there and sort of progressed gradually.
To Sum It Up
So at the moment their relationship consists of Guy teasing and lying his ass off half the time and Asch misinterpreting and being an asshole, with interludes of awkward fluff and sex. They've both come a long way, though, and what is for certain is there's no going back, for better or for worse. They still have a lot of problems, and those aren't going anywhere. But hopefully neither are they.
NATALIA
(2,300+ words)
An Introduction
There's no easy way to describe the messed-up combination that is Asch and Natalia. First of all, I want to make two things clear: one- I like Natalia. Love her, actually. I think she's marvelous. Two- I ship Asch/Natalia. I think it's important to note these because I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I say in the rest of this little essay. Asch and Natalia do have issues, it's true, but that in no way makes them incompatible, nor does it mean that they can't ever work it out.
Due to the fact that there isn't a lot to really argue about in regards to these two (canon makes it pretty clear how they feel about one another) this section probably won't be as long, but Natalia holds a very special place in Asch's heart, so it'd be silly if I left her out.
History
Natalia's past: Born as Meryl (Largo's daughter), raised from birth as the child of the king, her hand in marriage promised to the tertiary heir to the throne. The country had high expectations of her after Luke taught her how to care for the people, and she became a true leader and a beloved princess of all.
Asch's past: Raised for ten years as Luke fon Fabre, friend and childhood love to Natalia. He vowed with her before he was kidnapped that they would change the country together and make it better for everyone.
The original Luke fon Fabre was, above all else, an idealist and a nobleman in the truest sense of the word, which makes his transformation to a bitter, bloody tool of religion and manipulation that much more ironic and tragic, in a lot of ways. Fortunately he wasn't blind to it completely, but for seven years, he followed Van's orders with no indication of questioning them or disobeying. So what was the turning point of all that loyalty to the enemy, after showing such promise and devotion to his country?
Natalia.
Seeing her with his replica- accepting him, playing with him, giving him the care that Asch needed so desperately, was the final straw that broke the camel's back for him, and what caused him to turn to Van. He was hurt by his family's acceptance of the replica, but it wasn't until Natalia arrived on the scene that he seemed to have some hope of returning. Her failure to denounce his replica was the killing blow for him. And though she can't be blamed for not knowing it was him (who could have known, really), in typical Asch fashion, the act alone is nigh-unforgivable.
Game Canon
During the game, Asch's treatment of Natalia is basically gentle nostalgia. Natalia clings to the memories of their past, while Asch rejects them almost completely; at the same time, he's willing to reminisce about it with her up to a point. Whenever the memories go from good to unpleasant or if she tries to get him to contribute, he goes back to rejecting them. The development process of how he reacts is gradual; initially he has the knee-jerk "shut up, we're busy, keep moving, I don't want to hear it", and as time passes he opens up to it little by little, until he seeks her out in Sheridan to encourage her and repeat his promise. That's really the last time he's able to speak with her one-on-one, but that memory is something precious to him, just as much as the original promise was when he originally made it.
Further analysis of the scenes where Asch and Natalia meet or interact offers up the following observations:
Natalia is still a crucial figure in Asch's life. From the very start, Asch noticed her and acknowledged her importance; as children, Asch was able to recognize that when they became king and queen, she would be just as much of a figurehead as he would. Because of this, he took it upon himself to educate her on the importance of caring for the people, viewing them as equals instead of underlings, and giving them the sort of support Kimlasca deserves. Natalia herself shares with the party how he brought her out of the castle and taught her what the true role of nobility should be, and she and Asch talk about it. ( 6:00-6:45 ) Even after his kidnapping, when Natalia thought he'd forgotten all of that, she still held his ideals close to her heart. She helped the unemployed find jobs, she opened hospitals when medical aid was needed, she earned through generosity and compassion the title of "beloved princess". Because of Asch's influence and her own determination, she became so popular amongst the people that they were willing to sacrifice their lives for her even when she was branded as a traitor.
When they met again after seven years of separation, Asch took up a new position in her life; instead of the driving force and a leader to her goals of caring for the people, he became a pillar of support, helping her and the others from the shadows while he took care of his own agenda. He didn't take credit for what he did, he didn't gain the love and adoration of the people. But he protected her because he knew that she was the one Kimlasca needed in order to lead the country to true prosperity. She was the figurehead the people would follow, no matter where she led them. Asch the Bloody would never be king, but as long as Natalia became queen someday, he had no reason to worry about the country he loved.
Asch was jealous of Luke for taking Natalia from him. It wasn't just his family that was stolen; his home, his servants, his position. But it was Natalia's acceptance of Luke that broke him (Asch Gaiden, page 28, 29, 30). Luke had everything, and Asch had nothing- not even a name anymore. When he shows himself for the first time after Natalia joins the group (after leaving the abandoned factory), he only makes one comment: "Aren't you the ladies man?" He sees his girl with the replica, and he is Not Happy.
Asch is not afraid of putting Natalia in her place. get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich Asch has never been one to hold his tongue, whatever the situation. He doesn't do it to be intentionally cruel (except in Luke's case), but it's the most effective way he knows how to communicate with people. Be blunt, be rude, utilize the power of shock value to set those he's speaking with on edge. It's astonishingly effective at times. So with Natalia, he doesn't mince words just to play nice if he thinks she's not doing the right thing. He knows she's strong, and he probably knows she can take it, too- she shows this during the oasis scene where he calls her an idiot and she responds a tad snippily in response to both tone and insult. It adds a bit of curious fun to their dynamic.
He treats her differently than the rest. Despite the fact that she's not above reproach, Asch still treats Natalia better than most of the others, which is natural considering their history. He watches over her more than the rest, protecting her from dangerous situations (killing the monsters in Ortion Cavern, taking on the entire Kimlascan royal guard to save her from Ingobert...), guiding her when she lacks confidence. When feeling indecision about whether or not to see her father again, the one who goes to speak to her and raises her spirits is Asch, of all people. Over the course of the entire game, no one but Natalia was able to arouse such kind words from him. And then he repeats his promise to her (which is... well, pretty much their wedding proposal) and makes it clear that it's Natalia who is loved, not the princess. ( 3:20-4:35 )
Natalia doesn't understand who Asch is. Most of the time they're together in-game, Asch's identity is an issue that Natalia struggles with constantly. She repeatedly calls him "Luke" by mistake, resulting in his angry correction, and more than once she's insisted (against his own statements) that he hasn't changed- that he's still the same Luke that he used to be. For someone who spent years trying, and failing, to stay away from his old identity, it's no wonder that Asch got frustrated with her sometimes. It's not that Natalia was completely wrong; in many ways, Asch was the same. He carried the same love for her, the same desire to see Kimlasca thrive and prosper. He still has the same pride, the same sense of honour and justice. But as much as either of them might want it, he's not Luke anymore, and he's definitely not the same. You don't go through what he did, lose what he lost, without changing one way or another. And Asch had to completely rebuild his life, and his very identity, from the bottom up. Put it all in perspective and they're lucky there was anything left of him that was the same as before.
As I said above, it takes Natalia the entire game to finally make a clear distinction between Asch, Asch's old self, and Luke, and she doesn't figure it out until well after he's dead. Asch resents that and rejects her for it, and while he never stops loving her, what he wanted was for her to accept him for him, not his old self. All she can do is insist that he hasn't changed, and he disagrees with her, which leads to him tromping off to be grumpy elsewhere. At the end of the game, Natalia herself admits the crucial mistake she'd been making: she'd mixed Asch and Luke up in her mind, blending them together with the memories of how her Luke used to be, instead of acknowledging that not only are they different people, but they're different from the childhood memories she holds so dear. It's strange how she manages to come to terms with how different Luke is ( 5:06-6:45 ) but it takes her until endgame to realize that Asch is different- that his path is different from Luke's, and it's deviated from Natalia's, as well. Really, it's unfortunate that Asch died before he was able to hear her say all of that; I think it's something he needs to hear from her before he can ever really open up to her again. ( 1:57-2:44 )
Natalia is the only one who makes Asch smile. Asch is not a positive person, not by far. When his lips are curving up, he's usually sneering at someone, smirking to mock them. He doesn't laugh- he scoffs, and he does not smile. Ever.
Except that if you watch his expression carefully, sometimes with Natalia, he'll crack a smile, even if it's brief. Whether it's nostalgia, amusement at her words or behaviour, pride, love, or a mixture of all that and more... whatever it is, she still earns a different reaction from him than most people, even if he usually hides it and dismisses it, lest it become a weakness.
Luceti
Natalia's arrival in Luceti was a source of great indecision and mental anguish for Asch (dramatic as always, I know). Her affection for him is hardly a secret to anyone, even him, and the fact that he wasn't free to love her and be with her the way she seemed to want him to be upset him because he does love her, and he does want her to be happy. After he became Asch, he never dared to imagine that he'd have a chance to be with her- or anyone else, for that matter. The existence of the replica who took his place, his impending death, and the fate of the world would prevent it. By endgame, his death was the only remaining barrier, and in Luceti, that's no longer an issue; if Natalia had arrived earlier and Guy hadn't been involved, Asch could just as easily have ended up with her instead. Or he could still be with no one. There's no real way to be certain.
Since Natalia is a relatively new arrival in comparison to the others, and she and Asch have spent a good chunk of time avoiding one another due to extreme awkwardness (despite living together, don't ask me how that works), there aren't as many significant threads to note as of yet. Hopefully that can be remedied over time, because awkward as they are, I really do love their interactions. Still, here's what has happened thus far:
To Sum It Up
So they're at the point where interaction is normal, and while there haven't been any grand epiphanies yet, there's a lot of potential. Asch is still wary but protective of Natalia, and I can't say what Natalia's feeling, but she obviously still cares for him, so... yeah, I'm eager to see what happens in the future with those two. A lost childhood friendship shouldn't drown in awkwardness forever- after all, neither of them have forgotten. They just need time to work on issues neither have wanted to deal with.
Total: 9,001 words
Since Asch's relationships with Luke, Guy, and Natalia are so insanely complex, a little section of the relationships list is far too small to really explain it completely. Thus, it's going here. This is really more of a relationship manifesto/character analysis, but, ehhh.
....Also this is long, holy hell.
LUKE
(3,300+ words)
An Introduction
There's no easy way to describe the relationship between Asch and Luke. It's different for each of them, and while Luke progresses a lot over the course of the game, Asch... doesn't. Not much, anyway. And I admit things have been a little rushed in Luceti, but that's more or less the nature of things with most roleplaying, so I'm trying to work with what I've got. Certain events have sort of conspired to make them closer, but they have a long way to go.
History
Luke's past: ...Not much of one. He's only been alive for seven years, and most of those have been spent under lock and key in Fabre Manor, raised mostly by Guy, taught to fight through Van's occasional visits to the mansion. The fon slots were opened at Choral Castle, linking him to Asch. Didn't find out he was a replica until after Akzeriuth was destroyed.
Asch's past: Ten years in Baticul, kidnapped, painfully replicated, lost his entire family, spent the rest of his life under the tutelage and care of the manipulator who had him replicated in the first place and then convinced him that the only reason he wasn't replaceable was due to his hyperresonance. He grew up resenting Luke and hating all replicas with a passion.
The fact that Asch blames Luke and not Van for his replication is a point of interest for me, since Van was there for it, and was in fact the instigator of the entire ordeal. Yet with brilliant and calculated manipulation, Van managed to control Asch so completely for seven years of his life, even a few years before that. For Asch, he truly was 'master', his source of purpose, of love and care and trust. Van needed him, and that in turn made Asch need him- exactly what Van wanted.
In so many ways Van is a genius; despite their repeated refusals to join him, he kept stringing Asch and Luke along for the entire goddamned game. Right up until the end, so much of their lives were devoted to Van - learning from him, seeking his approval, trusting him - that the idea of Van no longer wanting or needing them is crushing. Luke spends most of the game fretting about who he is and why Van accepts Asch and not him, and Asch runs around like a madman filling his time with duty and missions, in the process distracting himself from the fact that Van betrayed him so utterly and shattering his plan to stay by Van's side. Van played everyone, but they paid the highest price for it. And instead of finding some sort of mutual understanding between themselves, instead of coming together and using that joint betrayal as a weapon against him, they turned on each other. All because of Van.
So really, it's not just a relationship between Asch and Luke; in the middle of all their problems is Van, yet neither of them seem to be able to blame him. At the end of things, Asch still wanted to be his student and Luke thanked him.
They are so seriously messed up.
Game Canon
Throughout the game there's no shortage of evidence that Asch hates Luke; as the saying goes, "haters gonna hate", after all. And there's no denying that Asch is quite the hater. He hates Luke, he hates replicas, he hates Van, he even hates himself, it seems. He calls himself pathetic about three times if you play your cards right. What's easy to miss are the subtle developments he goes through over the course of game canon, and while he remains pretty dark and bitter until the end, he does open up to some of his insecurities, fighting all the while. And he comes to realize the importance of things he'd dismissed not too long before. I've compiled a list of little factoids about Asch and his thoughts on Luke, Van, and replicas in general:
Asch wanted to stay with Van. Even at the end, Asch admits to this. He wanted to be Van's tool- in a way, that was all that mattered. The rest of Auldrant be damned; despite all that had been done to him and all he'd lost, Asch was prepared to give it all away and follow Van's ideals until he died. ( 9:10-9:40 ) Linked to this little factoid is the next point-
Asch hates replicas more than he loves anything else. It's a sad fact, but a true one. Asch loves Auldrant; he loves Kimlasca. He loves his family. He loves Van more than any of these things. But the fact that Van wanted to replace everyone with replicas was the one factor that made Asch abandon him and begin working on his own to stop Van from succeeding. It's actually somewhat of a frightening concept. It's not really known how much of Van's plan Asch was aware of; he knew Van plotted to overturn the Score, he knew he wanted to use Asch's hyperresonance to do that. He probably knew something would be done about Lorelei. But everything else he knew was nothing compared to finding out about the replicas. With that level of hate for the very concept of replication, the fact that he'd abandoned his home and everything else he loved for Van's sake, his hatred of Luke must have been all the more intense throughout the majority of the game.
Asch tries to accept Luke. Not all the time, and never completely. But there are moments, little fragments and real attempts for him to help Luke, to support him and urge him to develop, even though his methods were wrong. Examples that come to mind:
- After their confrontation in Yulia City, Asch is calm, borderline polite, and nowhere near as condescending as he usually is with Luke. He explains the situation and goes into more detail about isofons and their connection, and even calls him Luke. ( 8:10-9:10 ) He continues to be surprisingly helpful despite his cruel teases during the entire duration of Asch's stint as party leader, when he could have just abandoned Luke in Yulia City with no idea of what's going on. Luke distracted him numerous times, but Asch didn't shut him out until it was time for Luke to try and make things right.
- Before going to Eldrant, he seeks out the party in order to head there with them and confront Van. This is the first and only time he meets with them specifically to join with them, freely and of his own will. Luke kind of screws this up because he doesn't understand Asch's intentions, and Asch makes it worse by overreacting and not explaining himself. The problem is that Luke is placing all his plans on the idea that Asch is automatically stronger and therefore defeating Van is on his shoulders. Asch wanted to work together, and Luke had already decided himself that his job - and the job of the others - was to get Asch to Van in order to finish things. That's not how Asch wanted it to go down, so he rejected Luke entirely and challenged him instead. ( 5:35-7:15 )
Asch has very contradicting feelings about Luke. It's shown frequently throughout the game; he wants Luke to die, but he spares his life. He hates Luke, yet he helps him every step of the way. He argues with Luke constantly, but the one who always starts the conversations between them was Asch. How he feels contradicts how he acts, out of necessity. The worst of it, perhaps, is in Grand Chokmah prior to Eldrant, again: here at 7:15-7:55.
"How can you just accept calling yourself inferior?! Why can't you say you're superior?! Why do you insist on putting yourself down?!"
And then:
"Shut up! You're an inferior, defective replica! I refuse to accept you!"
In the span of less than one minute, Asch contradicts himself completely. He wants Luke to stay as his copy, as only his replica, because if he's anything less (or more) then Asch will have lost everything for nothing, in a sense. But at the same time, he can't stand that Luke has none of the pride he himself possesses, the pride that demands he be the superior one, the strongest. The one Van needs. As long as Luke has decided that he, the replica, is the weaker one, Asch can't accept him as an equal or even as an ally because he places so much value on personal pride. If Luke is his true copy, he should feel that same level of pride and superiority. Anything less is nothing but an impostor, as Asch says.
Close to the end of the game, Guy says this: "Asch hated replicas. That gave him purpose. He lost that the moment Luke stood on his own." That sums things up pretty well. Asch wants to acknowledge Luke's independence and power by working with him, but doing so would ruin his own personal beliefs, wound his sense of purpose, and make himself into a contradiction, really. And since Luke lacks his own sense of pride, Asch has an excuse to continue hating him despite wanting to rely on that strength.
Asch values his hyperresonance above all. It's stated - or more implied than anything, since Van never seems to say it directly - repeatedly in the game that the reason Van accepts Asch and rejects Luke is because of his power and control over hyperresonance. Without that hyperresonance, Asch has no greater value above his "defective" or rejected replica; if anything he's less valuable without it, since that's the reason Van even wants him. It sort of negates everything Asch worked towards for the past seven years, so he's very much not happy about the current situation in Luceti.
Asch has his moments of kindness. This can vary depending on what language you listen to- English!Asch tends to sound more angry, I've found, while in Japanese Asch is gruff, but slightly more soft-spoken. An example of this is here at 00:00-00:25; Asch offers to send the group back to Luke, and he doesn't sound mocking or cruel about it; just... matter-of-fact. He knows the group won't stay with him, nor does he want them to. He reassures Luke, insults him, and drags him down again, but he never had to say any reassurance like that in the first place. There's cruelty in his kindness, but he's kind nonetheless. It just very, very rarely applies to Luke.
Luke can connect to Asch in certain situations. It occurs three times during the game that I can think of- five if you count the unification of their hyperresonances during the lowering of the Outer Lands and the Tower of Rem. These examples are:
- When Asch connects Luke to himself after their fight in Yulia City. Luke sees through his eyes, speaks in his mind. He lacks the lower to control Asch's body, much as he wants to, but Asch hints at it being possible (if Luke wasn't so incompetent).
- Shutting down the Sephiroth in the Absorption Gate, after killing Largo. When Luke was viewing what had happened in the core, he was able to connect with Asch and speak directly with him there without Asch starting it up himself. He saw Asch fighting with Sync and was able to tell the others.
- In Eldrant, when Asch connected to Luke in order to find out what was going on, Luke heard his last words and witnessed his death.
Luceti
I have to confess that due to my inexperience with playing him, when I started things out in Luceti I made Asch nicer than he ought to be. He smiled too easily, he opened up too quickly, he continued conversations he otherwise would have ended, for the sake of further interaction. His characterization was a work-in-progress and I learned from it, but unfortunately there's no going back and fixing things, either. There are a number of difficulties that exist in bringing Asch into a social situation like a roleplay; for one, he rejects damn near everyone unless he finds them useful, and for another, he prefers to work alone, and that means being alone even in a new world. Familiar faces don't mean the same to him as they do to most other people. There are other reasons, but those two are the major ones, and similar ones at that. A few things have conspired to keep Asch relatively close to Luke over the course of his time spent in Luceti, but this is their gradual development thus far:
- 1) Two weeks after his arrival, his first experiment took place, a personality shift that caused Asch to be ridiculously nice to everyone, particularly Luke. During that event he said some things he never would have said otherwise, and while a lot of it was due to the experiment, the slivers of truth to it left Asch rather bothered afterwards, since Luke knowing those things made him extremely uncomfortable.
- 2) A flipped effect of the same experiment caused Luke to go evil on everyone and he and Asch had a battle, during which Luke forced Asch to repeatedly use hyperresonance. Due to Asch being pre-Eldrant back then, this was actually the first time Luke ever defeated Asch, and it bothered him to know Luke had become so strong, especially where hyperresonance is concerned.
- 3) During Asch's first kidnapping, Luke wrangled Asch into keeping the fonic link open constantly over the course of several days. The same thing happened during Luke's kidnapping at a later date- Asch returned the favour as if to repay a debt. The link evolved in the process and remains so as a result; it opens more easily now, causing Luke less pain, and there's a residual connection open all the time whether they want it or not. This causes occasional thoughts, feelings, or physical pain to pass between them unfiltered.
- 4) After Guy disappeared from Luceti for the first time, Asch and Luke wound up spending a fair amount of time alone in the house together and by some miracle found a way to survive it. Probably due to the fact that they both missed Guy; Luke sought out Asch's company as a method of comforting himself, and Asch tolerated it to an extent, finding his own bizarre form of comfort in the familiarity of replica abuse.
- 5) During Asch's kidnapping the Malnosso did something to make his body's internal countdown start up again, resulting in his death and the power of his hyperresonance entering Luke (the loss of which was Asch's Death Penalty). Before and after his death there were a number of conversations Asch and Luke shared that were pretty crucial in developing how much (or little, at times) Asch respects Luke. ( source 1 2 )
- 6) When Guy and Asch decided to actually get into a relationship, Asch experienced something he'd never felt before in relation to his replica: guilt. Luke had been with Guy previously in Luceti, and what with Guy choosing to be with Asch and Luke feeling betrayed/left out/whatnot, Asch felt the strange urge to apologize for it, though he wouldn't explain. It's not a feeling he enjoyed.
- 7) During Luke's kidnapping, Asch taught Luke to open the fonic link between them himself so that the connection wouldn't cause Luke pain, and in case Luke needed to contact him. Sharing the control of their connection with Luke was kind of a Big Deal for Asch, and during their second lengthy connection, Asch finally admitted two very important things: that the replication wasn't Luke's fault, and that he no longer hates Luke for it. ( source 1 2 )
- 8) There was a big relationship mess regarding Asch, Luke, and Guy, which is probably better off left in the past so I'm not going into detail. Even now I have no idea whether it helped or hindered the way they feel about each other.
- 9) Asch told Luke about his initial return to Baticul as a child, after the replication; it's the first time he'd ever told anyone, though he told Guy later. Luke trusts him enough to let him put a sharp blade close to his throat for a while. ...Okay so Asch just cut Luke's hair, but still. ( source )
- 10) Upon receiving the Key of Lorelei during the Christmas event (Luke got the Jewel) Asch admitted that he trusted Luke and the power of his hyperresonance. The subsequent discussion and hyperresonance attempt on the barrier led to some interesting revelations on Asch's part. ( source )
- 11) During an experiment where Luke became Yulia Jue and Asch became Lorelei, they realized there was a deeper link between them and wound up having to avoid one another. The sudden emotional connection caused Asch to panic and leave, but not before an interesting discussion about the Score, family, what it means to be replicated, etc. ( source )
- 12) Asch and Luke have something of an argument and manage to organize some sort of truce in regards to how Asch typically treats him. Apparently Asch was in a giving mood that day. They have another moment. ( source )
- 13) Luke is sent home for a canon update, and Asch realized belatedly how much their fonic connection meant to him since it was broken without Luke there. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all. When Luke returns Asch has the decency to admit that he was missed.
- 14) After Tear arrives, Asch actually ends up giving Luke relationship advice. and then the moon crashes into the earth and the world ends They end up talking about Natalia as well, and Luke gets Asch to open up on some of his feelings on the whole situation.
- 15) Another event had Asch possessed by the healing spirit, Nala, which made him rather disgustingly fluffy and peaceful. During this time it was implied that if Luke tried to move out of the house they shared Asch would be quite put out.
- 16) When Natalia arrives in Luceti, Asch confided in Luke some of what he was feeling and the issues he had with her being there. Among other things. ( source )
- 17) Luke's next kidnapping resulted in memory loss, and Asch spent some time working with him to retrieve those memories. Quite possibly the most work effort he's put into the relationship like... ever. ( source 1 2 )
- 18) Asch and Luke had a discussion about the fonic link and how it's developed during their time in Luceti, resulting in a fight, but with some prying they both agreed it merits some investigation. Luke promised to speak with Jade about it, which he did. ( source )
To Sum It Up
Suffice to say they've come a long way in a year and a half of constantly living together. I don't know where things will go from here or how close they'll get, but Asch is more or less comfortable with how things stand right now. It's still unfamiliar ground, but he's not as hopeless as he used to be. Naturally they still argue, but that's a crucial part of their dynamic that really shouldn't change or vanish.
GUY
(3,200+ words)
An Introduction
Asch and Guy have a rather complicated history, and thus now they have a complicated relationship. The complexity of it is probably what drew me to it; Asch with Natalia (and Guy with Luke, in contrast, which is the more popular couple for him) was always the happy fluffy couple, since Asch hardly ever so much as raised his voice with her, and any comment he made that could seem even remotely mocking was said in such a playfully ironic tone that it was easy to see it was just good-natured teasing. For Asch, the idea is practically unreal. But Guy offers such a contrary attitude and personality, and their histories are ridiculously similar and give them a sort of mutual understanding if they were brought to that point.
I confess that I shipped the two of them for a long time, well before I joined Luceti with Asch, but it was never my intention that they hook up- actually, at the time it was impossible, as Guy was with Luke when Asch arrived. I brought Asch to Luceti because I wanted to join the Tales of the Abyss cast, and things progressed gradually yet pleasantly from there; it's interesting how things work out that way. I'm not particularly apologetic for the progression of things, either, since I'm really happy with how they've turned out, but as I've been questioned on my reasoning for the ship in the past, this monstrosity was born from my constant need to justify myself, I suppose.
So, working our way up...
History
Guy's past: Orphaned at a young age, raised by single authority figure (sort of; Pere's a whole new can of lovable grandpa worms), grew up resenting the perceived source of his misery- namely, Duke Fabre, and by association Luke, as well. Had a change of heart and allowed himself the chance to start to get over his issues, thus setting aside his revenge.
Asch's past: Born a nobleman, lost his family due to replication, raised by a single authority figure (Van, presumably since Asch's existence must not have become known until enough time had passed; Dist implied that he'd been locked away in Daath to prevent escape), grew up resenting the source of his misery- the replica who stole it all. In canon he has very subtle changes in his opinions, but in the end has yet to forgive Luke so much as grudgingly accept him.
As a child (when he was Luke) Asch was given at least three years with Guy, from the time he arrived and started working in the manor until Asch's kidnapping. While we're not given many hints about how these few years were, it's more or less implied that Guy didn't really give two shits about Asch, and was just biding his time in order to become more comfortable with the idea of killing a child. It's impossible to know if that would ever have happened, or if Guy would've ever killed 'Luke', since it's the replica Luke that changed his mind.
For Asch's part, however, it's... pretty easy to tell that Guy was important to him. The way he behaves around Guy, the way he speaks with him, the way he reacts to Guy's rejection- it's implied numerous times that for Asch's part, Guy was his childhood friend, just as much as Natalia if not moreso. Guy took care of him as a child, and if you consider his upbringing, it makes sense for him to view Guy quite differently than he views the others. I actually find it really interesting that hardly anyone notices how Asch behaves around Guy, considering the fact that how he treats Natalia is almost the same (albeit less subtly) and everyone and their mother auto-ships them (including me, really). But if his behaviour around Natalia can justify the ship, that same reasoning can justify pairing Asch and Guy up- provided there is either enough development, and/or Guy is at a timeline where he's willing to give Asch a chance, let alone be romantically inclined towards him.
Game Canon
For all their claims at letting go of the past, they certainly are good at basing how they live their lives on it. Both characters have at some (if not more than one) point in the game mentioned that they've had difficulty with throwing away the past. Unfortunately Guy totally tops Asch in the "I'm getting over it" category, and they spend the majority being at odds over how to treat Luke... still, here's a number of points on their interaction in-game and why they tolerate each other's dickery:
Guy was his primary caregiver. It was only a few years, and he probably had someone else looking after him before then, but even so, the important thing is that it was Guy's job. Asch was neglected as a child, intentionally by his father, and unintentionally by his mother, who was often too ill to look after him herself. The responsibility fell to those hired by Fabre: the tutors, for his schooling, Van, as his swordsmanship instructor, and Guy, for everything else. As an older male close to his age, Asch most likely looked up to Guy on a number of levels. When it came to playing, he preferred Guy over Natalia, and though it seems as if he was a serious, stand-offish type of kid, he's also shown as being kind-hearted and genuinely happy; it was the innocence and genuine lack of concern for his past that endeared Luke to Guy, something Asch was missing as a kid. Just one more thing the replica had that he didn't- Guy's affection.
Asch knew of Guy's plans. It's more or less stated in the game that because of their history, Asch assumed Guy would choose Luke over him because "Van told [him]". Even knowing that Guy was only pretending when they were children, and that for years the plan of murder was on his mind instead of the brotherly love Asch carried for him, Asch doesn't hold it against Guy. Instead he brushes it off and lets it go, feigning disinterest, despite the fact that it clearly makes him uncomfortable. Which brings me to point 3-
Asch doesn't object to how Guy treats him. Asch the Bloody is not a pushover. Not by a long shot. If people argue with him, he will argue back; if people insult him, tease him, or treat him badly, he will either respond in kind or leave rather than sit there and take it. But when Guy snaps at him, or contradicts him for the sake of being nasty, Asch doesn't protest in the slightest. In fact, he even prevents Natalia from scolding Guy for it. (( 5:20-5:48, 6:07-6:25. ) When Natalia tries to encourage Guy to support Asch, Guy is immediately reluctant - in words he agrees with her, but it's easy to tell by tone and expression that he's not being sincere. ( 7:45-8:12 ). Shortly after he leaves the group entirely to return to Luke, Asch once again dismisses the issue despite Natalia's concerns, and Jade observes that Asch likes Guy. ( 9:27-10:26 ).
Asch listens to Guy. Despite his bitching, despite his "brb doing everything myself" attitude, when Guy makes a demand of him, Asch listens. Since the number of times the party meets up with Asch are kind of limited, examples are a bit sparse as well, but there's two solid moments of this happening that I can recall:
- Before the party goes to evacuate the citizens of Engeve, Asch tells Luke to come to the desert oasis. When Asch has said his part Guy asks (rather nastily) if he's finished, and Asch explains Engeve's condition without protesting his tone. There's a pause between the demand and Asch's response. Asch doesn't object to the way he was asked to explain, nor does he refuse the request/demand to explain. ( 6:40-7:50 )
- Before the Tower of Rem section, when Luke gets Asch to meet the group in Fabre Manor, Asch doesn't agree to go along with Luke to see his parents until Guy snaps at him and demands he "hear [Luke] out". Once again Asch agrees without a single objection. ( 0:40-1:10 )
Mushroom Road. Yeah, this is something of a cop-out, which is why I'm putting it near the end. For those unaware, during the Mushroom Road sidequest, entering and exiting the dungeon area several times lands you this little snippet of dialogue:
Guy: You again.
Asch: ...Gee, sorry. Good timing. Take me with you.
Luke: Gotcha, I'll stay here.
Guy: Luke, you don't have to stay behind for this guy's sake.
Luke: Guy! You were Asch's childhood friend. He loves you. You could be a little nicer.
Asch: ...N-no I don't! Cut the stupid chatter and let's go!
It's not much, and it offers no support whatsoever to Guy's side of the equation, but it proves two things: Asch's affection for Guy (not necessarily romantic, but enough that suggesting such a thing gets a rise out of him, even a stutter and probably a blush), and Luke's desire to see the two of them getting along.
This is more speculation than anything, but I like to imagine (as do a number of doujinshi artists, since there's a few sidestories for Mushroom Road) that their travels in Mushroom Road gave Asch and Guy a chance to interact more behind the scenes, and while I can't see any miraculous chats with love confessions or relational revelations, I think it would've been nice to see some Mushroom Road skits with Asch and the rest of the party.
Guy wanted to start over. At the end of the game, while speaking to Natalia, Guy said several very important things ( 1:55-3:35 ):
- "I've put my past behind me as best as I can. I think that's what Asch is trying to do now." Guy will probably never get over what happened completely. Same goes for Asch. They both went through something horrible and traumatizing as children, and no amount of apologizing or amends can change that. But coming to terms with something and moving on is a crucial tool of character development, and while Guy's managed that pretty well, Asch struggles with it, and his answers usually end up involving a battle in one way or another. Guy understands that; he knows why Asch and Luke had to fight.
- "When that happens, he will no longer be the son of my enemy, and I no longer his servant. We'll start over as Asch and Gailardia. Just two people." The false roles will fade; the last line sums it up beautifully. They'll be two people, nothing more, nothing less, free to start over and forget the past. That's what Guy wanted, really, and that's what happened when they met again in Luceti.
- "I bet he's a pretty fun guy, without all his baggage." That right there is my justification for every tease, every joke, every playful bit of banter that Guy throws at Asch. He knows Asch can have fun if the right buttons are pushed, and if the right reasons are presented to him. He knows that underneath all his drama and anger and resentment is the potential for a well-tempered and experienced youth who's put his past behind him. Someday, maybe, he'll get that far. But it's okay to still be Asch, too.
Guy understands Asch. Not perfectly, not by far. No one can do that, not even Asch himself. But probably better than most people, even Natalia and certainly Luke. There's a number of times during the game that he actually asks Luke outright why he doesn't know what Asch is thinking. He only explains a few times, but it's enough to show the kind of insight he has on Asch. This is why he's well-suited to deal with Asch's baggage and drama; he can keep a clear head and realize what Asch's problem is, sometimes before he himself knows.
Luceti
For this one, I had to start digging deep into waaay back when Asch first arrived and Eggy's original Guy, from the Tower of Rem timeline, was still around. It started there and sort of progressed gradually.
- 1) The snowball fight. Guy dragged Asch out into the snow to have some fun for once, and afterwards they shared a discussion about the past, family, and the future. Asch had a taste of what it felt like to be honest with someone, and learned a few things about Guy in the process. That day isn't something he'd easily forget. They had a number of other interactions, but nothing really significant comes to mind besides this; just that Guy was much kinder to Asch than he used to be, and over time Asch responded in kind.
- 2) Post-game Guy's arrival led to his realization of how much Asch had changed during his experience in Luceti. Meanwhile Asch is baffled as to why Guy is so friendly towards him, so they pretty much give each other a chance.
- 3) During the Chatterbox event Asch was forced to tell Guy about the replication and the contamination it caused in his body. He learned about his death and it gave him a lot to think about as far as Guy is concerned.
- 4) Circumstances sort of conspire to force Asch to stay in bed for a while, which meant getting nursed by his housemates. This led to a number of conversations between he and Guy about replication and contamination again, and was the start of Asch's progression towards his Luceti death- which was the Malnosso's fault.
- 5) Asch returns post-death and Guy surprises him with some unexpected affection. Asch lets himself show some grief over his own death despite his attempts to avoid it, and it gets the ball rolling. ( source )
- 6) Guy invites Asch to go with him to the Luceti festival and cheer Luke on in the competition; despite his expectations, Asch enjoys himself. The discussion that follows prompts Asch to question Guy's affection, leading to awkwardness and fumbling. Eventually they decide to move forward with... whatever their odd little relationship is becoming. ( source )
- 7) Luke reveals that he knows Guy and Asch are together; drama ensues and Luke abandons ship. Asch takes over Good Spirits for the night while Guy and Luke have a fight; upon Asch's return, he and Guy have a lengthy discussion and end up sleeping together for the first time. Cue sex thread of extreme awkward fail. ( source - NSFW )
- 8) While Guy's sick and Asch is playing nursemaid, Asch throws a tantrum at Luke and gets a lecture/pep-talk from Guy on why he needs to make friends. ( source )
- 9) Asch is sent home for a day, and returns with the wounds from Eldrant that came close to killing him. Asch gets a taste of his canon death and Guy gets to nearly lose someone else he holds dear. Fun for all!
- 10) ....And then the Valentine's Day experiment has them acting ridiculously embarrassing.
- 11) A training session at the lake turns into a lengthy discussion on Belkend, Asch's history, and the differences between Luke and Asch. Guy sure gives a lot of pep-talks. ( source )
- 12) Asch and Guy have a chat about servitude, what-ifs, Luke's independence, and Asch's progress. ( source ) Thread becomes NSFW afterwards, fyi.
- 13) Asch has a hissy-fit over one of Guy's entries, resulting in a discussion about bad memories. Guy decides he wants to bring Asch back to his timeline. ( source )
- 14) Guy invites Luceti to make friends with Asch, prompting another tantrum. Discussion that follows relates to Guy wanting to see if Asch could handle it if Guy were to leave Luceti or be replaced with an earlier version of himself, sans the memories of all they've been through. Asch is suitably put in his place. ( source ) As a follow-up, Asch advertises himself and actually makes decent conversation with a few people. ( source times two )
- 15) After Natalia's arrival, Asch and Guy have one hell of a fight when Guy suggests that Asch should consider pursuing Natalia (romantically) instead of him. Naturally this does not sit well with Asch. ( source ) Guy expands on this later, saying he'd assumed their relationship wouldn't be long term, and they work things out. ( source times two ) NSFW bit in the middle there, afterwards they talk about Natalia more.
- 16) Thanks to Jade and an experiment ("do everything you're ordered to do", basically), Asch tells Natalia what he and Guy are up to. He and Guy have a discussion about how to deal with it. ALSO THEY TRY A KINK OKAY I SAID IT. Guy takes full advantage of the experiment. ( NSFW )
- 17) After Guy plays devil's advocate regarding Jacob's gruesome death, they have a bit of a spat and then manage to work things out. Sort of. In short, Duke Fabre is a dick. ( source )
- 18) Due to Luke's kidnapping, Guy and Asch have a discussion on the floundering Guy/Luke conversation and Asch makes some guesses on what the problem is. He fails rather miserably and that's the end of that. ( source )
- 19) Later on Asch manages to convince/wrestle a bit of honesty out of Guy, though not much. Still counts for something, regardless. And they stop fighting. ( source )
- 20) While imprisoned in the carnival jail, out of extreme boredom Asch and Guy end up playing Truth or Dare. Unsurprisingly this leads to some angsty conversation. ( source )
- 21) During the letter event, Asch and Guy have a rather obscenely long discussion/argument when Guy figures out that Asch was planning to try and go back. Eventually he also figures out that he's been making unfair assumptions while Asch still fails at proper communication. ( source )
- 22) Guy invites Asch on a little tucked-away excursion to Good Spirits, surprising Asch by making a real commitment to honesty. It seems like a lot of srs bzns and fluff, but it's actually a really important step for them. ( source )
To Sum It Up
So at the moment their relationship consists of Guy teasing and lying his ass off half the time and Asch misinterpreting and being an asshole, with interludes of awkward fluff and sex. They've both come a long way, though, and what is for certain is there's no going back, for better or for worse. They still have a lot of problems, and those aren't going anywhere. But hopefully neither are they.
NATALIA
(2,300+ words)
An Introduction
There's no easy way to describe the messed-up combination that is Asch and Natalia. First of all, I want to make two things clear: one- I like Natalia. Love her, actually. I think she's marvelous. Two- I ship Asch/Natalia. I think it's important to note these because I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I say in the rest of this little essay. Asch and Natalia do have issues, it's true, but that in no way makes them incompatible, nor does it mean that they can't ever work it out.
Due to the fact that there isn't a lot to really argue about in regards to these two (canon makes it pretty clear how they feel about one another) this section probably won't be as long, but Natalia holds a very special place in Asch's heart, so it'd be silly if I left her out.
History
Natalia's past: Born as Meryl (Largo's daughter), raised from birth as the child of the king, her hand in marriage promised to the tertiary heir to the throne. The country had high expectations of her after Luke taught her how to care for the people, and she became a true leader and a beloved princess of all.
Asch's past: Raised for ten years as Luke fon Fabre, friend and childhood love to Natalia. He vowed with her before he was kidnapped that they would change the country together and make it better for everyone.
The original Luke fon Fabre was, above all else, an idealist and a nobleman in the truest sense of the word, which makes his transformation to a bitter, bloody tool of religion and manipulation that much more ironic and tragic, in a lot of ways. Fortunately he wasn't blind to it completely, but for seven years, he followed Van's orders with no indication of questioning them or disobeying. So what was the turning point of all that loyalty to the enemy, after showing such promise and devotion to his country?
Natalia.
Seeing her with his replica- accepting him, playing with him, giving him the care that Asch needed so desperately, was the final straw that broke the camel's back for him, and what caused him to turn to Van. He was hurt by his family's acceptance of the replica, but it wasn't until Natalia arrived on the scene that he seemed to have some hope of returning. Her failure to denounce his replica was the killing blow for him. And though she can't be blamed for not knowing it was him (who could have known, really), in typical Asch fashion, the act alone is nigh-unforgivable.
Game Canon
During the game, Asch's treatment of Natalia is basically gentle nostalgia. Natalia clings to the memories of their past, while Asch rejects them almost completely; at the same time, he's willing to reminisce about it with her up to a point. Whenever the memories go from good to unpleasant or if she tries to get him to contribute, he goes back to rejecting them. The development process of how he reacts is gradual; initially he has the knee-jerk "shut up, we're busy, keep moving, I don't want to hear it", and as time passes he opens up to it little by little, until he seeks her out in Sheridan to encourage her and repeat his promise. That's really the last time he's able to speak with her one-on-one, but that memory is something precious to him, just as much as the original promise was when he originally made it.
Further analysis of the scenes where Asch and Natalia meet or interact offers up the following observations:
Natalia is still a crucial figure in Asch's life. From the very start, Asch noticed her and acknowledged her importance; as children, Asch was able to recognize that when they became king and queen, she would be just as much of a figurehead as he would. Because of this, he took it upon himself to educate her on the importance of caring for the people, viewing them as equals instead of underlings, and giving them the sort of support Kimlasca deserves. Natalia herself shares with the party how he brought her out of the castle and taught her what the true role of nobility should be, and she and Asch talk about it. ( 6:00-6:45 ) Even after his kidnapping, when Natalia thought he'd forgotten all of that, she still held his ideals close to her heart. She helped the unemployed find jobs, she opened hospitals when medical aid was needed, she earned through generosity and compassion the title of "beloved princess". Because of Asch's influence and her own determination, she became so popular amongst the people that they were willing to sacrifice their lives for her even when she was branded as a traitor.
When they met again after seven years of separation, Asch took up a new position in her life; instead of the driving force and a leader to her goals of caring for the people, he became a pillar of support, helping her and the others from the shadows while he took care of his own agenda. He didn't take credit for what he did, he didn't gain the love and adoration of the people. But he protected her because he knew that she was the one Kimlasca needed in order to lead the country to true prosperity. She was the figurehead the people would follow, no matter where she led them. Asch the Bloody would never be king, but as long as Natalia became queen someday, he had no reason to worry about the country he loved.
Asch was jealous of Luke for taking Natalia from him. It wasn't just his family that was stolen; his home, his servants, his position. But it was Natalia's acceptance of Luke that broke him (Asch Gaiden, page 28, 29, 30). Luke had everything, and Asch had nothing- not even a name anymore. When he shows himself for the first time after Natalia joins the group (after leaving the abandoned factory), he only makes one comment: "Aren't you the ladies man?" He sees his girl with the replica, and he is Not Happy.
Asch is not afraid of putting Natalia in her place. get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich Asch has never been one to hold his tongue, whatever the situation. He doesn't do it to be intentionally cruel (except in Luke's case), but it's the most effective way he knows how to communicate with people. Be blunt, be rude, utilize the power of shock value to set those he's speaking with on edge. It's astonishingly effective at times. So with Natalia, he doesn't mince words just to play nice if he thinks she's not doing the right thing. He knows she's strong, and he probably knows she can take it, too- she shows this during the oasis scene where he calls her an idiot and she responds a tad snippily in response to both tone and insult. It adds a bit of curious fun to their dynamic.
He treats her differently than the rest. Despite the fact that she's not above reproach, Asch still treats Natalia better than most of the others, which is natural considering their history. He watches over her more than the rest, protecting her from dangerous situations (killing the monsters in Ortion Cavern, taking on the entire Kimlascan royal guard to save her from Ingobert...), guiding her when she lacks confidence. When feeling indecision about whether or not to see her father again, the one who goes to speak to her and raises her spirits is Asch, of all people. Over the course of the entire game, no one but Natalia was able to arouse such kind words from him. And then he repeats his promise to her (which is... well, pretty much their wedding proposal) and makes it clear that it's Natalia who is loved, not the princess. ( 3:20-4:35 )
Natalia doesn't understand who Asch is. Most of the time they're together in-game, Asch's identity is an issue that Natalia struggles with constantly. She repeatedly calls him "Luke" by mistake, resulting in his angry correction, and more than once she's insisted (against his own statements) that he hasn't changed- that he's still the same Luke that he used to be. For someone who spent years trying, and failing, to stay away from his old identity, it's no wonder that Asch got frustrated with her sometimes. It's not that Natalia was completely wrong; in many ways, Asch was the same. He carried the same love for her, the same desire to see Kimlasca thrive and prosper. He still has the same pride, the same sense of honour and justice. But as much as either of them might want it, he's not Luke anymore, and he's definitely not the same. You don't go through what he did, lose what he lost, without changing one way or another. And Asch had to completely rebuild his life, and his very identity, from the bottom up. Put it all in perspective and they're lucky there was anything left of him that was the same as before.
As I said above, it takes Natalia the entire game to finally make a clear distinction between Asch, Asch's old self, and Luke, and she doesn't figure it out until well after he's dead. Asch resents that and rejects her for it, and while he never stops loving her, what he wanted was for her to accept him for him, not his old self. All she can do is insist that he hasn't changed, and he disagrees with her, which leads to him tromping off to be grumpy elsewhere. At the end of the game, Natalia herself admits the crucial mistake she'd been making: she'd mixed Asch and Luke up in her mind, blending them together with the memories of how her Luke used to be, instead of acknowledging that not only are they different people, but they're different from the childhood memories she holds so dear. It's strange how she manages to come to terms with how different Luke is ( 5:06-6:45 ) but it takes her until endgame to realize that Asch is different- that his path is different from Luke's, and it's deviated from Natalia's, as well. Really, it's unfortunate that Asch died before he was able to hear her say all of that; I think it's something he needs to hear from her before he can ever really open up to her again. ( 1:57-2:44 )
Natalia is the only one who makes Asch smile. Asch is not a positive person, not by far. When his lips are curving up, he's usually sneering at someone, smirking to mock them. He doesn't laugh- he scoffs, and he does not smile. Ever.
Except that if you watch his expression carefully, sometimes with Natalia, he'll crack a smile, even if it's brief. Whether it's nostalgia, amusement at her words or behaviour, pride, love, or a mixture of all that and more... whatever it is, she still earns a different reaction from him than most people, even if he usually hides it and dismisses it, lest it become a weakness.
Luceti
Natalia's arrival in Luceti was a source of great indecision and mental anguish for Asch (dramatic as always, I know). Her affection for him is hardly a secret to anyone, even him, and the fact that he wasn't free to love her and be with her the way she seemed to want him to be upset him because he does love her, and he does want her to be happy. After he became Asch, he never dared to imagine that he'd have a chance to be with her- or anyone else, for that matter. The existence of the replica who took his place, his impending death, and the fate of the world would prevent it. By endgame, his death was the only remaining barrier, and in Luceti, that's no longer an issue; if Natalia had arrived earlier and Guy hadn't been involved, Asch could just as easily have ended up with her instead. Or he could still be with no one. There's no real way to be certain.
Since Natalia is a relatively new arrival in comparison to the others, and she and Asch have spent a good chunk of time avoiding one another due to extreme awkwardness (despite living together, don't ask me how that works), there aren't as many significant threads to note as of yet. Hopefully that can be remedied over time, because awkward as they are, I really do love their interactions. Still, here's what has happened thus far:
- 1) Natalia's arrival. Spent some time getting reacquainted and sorting out the whole "you're supposed to be dead" issue before Asch left to let Natalia settle in.
- 2) Natalia makes cookies; Asch endures them and probably regrets it later. Nothing really significant happens, but I love this thread so I'm listing it anyway, ha. ( source ) They do go down to the barracks later where Asch watches her practice before dozing off like the loser he is.
- 3) Thanks to an experiment and Jade's interference, Asch is forced to tell Natalia about his relationship with Guy. Things are understandably messy. ( source )
- 4) It takes a while, but eventually Asch and Natalia finally talk things out. Misunderstandings galore and they... don't really work anything out, orz. ( source )
- 5) Natalia's kidnapped and Asch ninjas in on her return, and they have a decent conversation for once. PROGRESS IS MADE?
To Sum It Up
So they're at the point where interaction is normal, and while there haven't been any grand epiphanies yet, there's a lot of potential. Asch is still wary but protective of Natalia, and I can't say what Natalia's feeling, but she obviously still cares for him, so... yeah, I'm eager to see what happens in the future with those two. A lost childhood friendship shouldn't drown in awkwardness forever- after all, neither of them have forgotten. They just need time to work on issues neither have wanted to deal with.
Total: 9,001 words